The last thing the world needs is another idealistic church-planter

“I need meat, not rice cereal.” Girl, you preach it. Fluffy messages to tickle ears, that’s what the modern day Church has started serving up 24/7. What has happened to teaching Holy living? Not through legalism, but rather sanctification by grace. What has happened to teaching repentance? Because hello. We’re man living in a world under the law of sin and death. What has happened to the straightforward Gospel? What, it’s not “relevant” to our day and age? Jesus Christ and what He did on Calvary’s cross is the most simple message a person will ever hear. Living holy isn’t easy, but praise God we can’t successfully do it on our own, but rather we can rest assuredly in the fact that HE who began a good work in me is faithful to see it to the end.

So much truth here. What a GOOD post. Thanks!

I love you. Your awesome! Thats all I have to say.

Girl! Serve up the steak! I like my medium, thank you.

I totally agree what I take as your point -that real Christianity addresses the straightforward Gospel with transparent honesty, acknowledges the truth of Hell, and encourages us toward a life of holiness. I don’t agree with your essential terminology. The definition of idealism is “the cherishing or pursuit of high or noble principles, purposes, goals, etc.” It is ideal that we press towards holiness right? Have you ever seen a youth group emboldened to preach the Gospel? Those are some of the most idealistic kids you’ll ever meet. They will certainly get jaded somewhere along their journey. But I appreciate their idealism – their singleminded pursuit of a high principle and calling. Again, I totally appreciate your point, so maybe it’s a little thing to quibble about.

I really appreciate this post.

To the commenters who quibbled with the word “idealist,” I think perhaps they are concerned that we not lose our optimism and hope. Those things are much more pleasant drivers of effort and especially of sacrifice than is duty and “it’s the right thing to do.”

We need both. As you pointed out, any parent knows that what we imagine things will be like is never the reality. Sometimes “It’s the right thing to do” is the only thing that will propel me through the hard and often-thankless work of raising a family. But I do it in the hope that one day, I will see fruit from all the labor.

Boy, that’s the truth about raising children. All your smugness goes away — just ask me — I have two grown children. They’re doing very well…but what a ride along the way!

P.S. Although I’m getting used to it, you gotta know it hurts a little to hear that the last thing the world needs is someone like me. Ouch!

Hey, Mary. The emerging/ missional/ transformational movements within evangelicalism are hard to explain because everyone seems to have a different perspective on it!

You can visit my blog to get a little idea of what we emerging/missional folks are like: http://www.rachelheldevans.com

Also, you might want to read this interview with Phyllis Tickle (an Anglican) about her thoughts on the movement: http://www.outofur.com/archives/2007/03/the_future_of_t.html

Or you can always check out the Wikipedia page; it’s pretty fair!

(I would like to add that missional and emerging are VERY different and the people who lump them together rarely have any idea what they are talking about. The missional movement is much more theologically-based and broad. The emerging movement – as hard as it is to define – is more culturally, driven; and is probably more likely to be a fad.)

RACHEL: And I love you and your writing! I can appreciate how this post would be unsettling. And I apologize for making you feel as if I were personally calling you out. I wasn’t. But I can definitely understand how you could take it that way. My apologies. ((hugs))

This post is reflective of my general frustration with a movement that I feel has gone off a cliff in its attempt to be different than, say, conservative evangelicals or fundamentalists.

The reason I wrote this post is because I have seen first-hand the destruction caused by idealistic, well-intentioned folks who start their own new churches. Yes, my childhood church was an evangelical, fundamentalist church–but the similarities are striking.

If I am going to deconstruct what went wrong in my childhood church, I have to be honest and share the similarities I see in new churches.

Sometimes that means I’m going to step on toes. Maybe I’ll even make mistakes. Maybe this post is one of them.

Maybe it is a journey, after all.

First of all, thank you so much for linking to my post! I really appreciate it, Elizabeth. I have read your blog for months now and find so much to love and learn from here with you and your journey.

I wanted to say how much I agree with the commenter, Rachel Hall, above though. My post wasn’t really meaning any of those things (meat vs. rice cereal or nuanced theologies) and the tone here felt a bit harsh. Everyone loves to hate the emerging church – it’s the one thing the rest of Christiandom can agree on! I love my EC brothers and sisters, still see them as family.

I am another one with fairly “nuanced” theologies, very little black and white, but a deep and abiding love of God. I’m pretty unsure about physical realities of hell, pretty open to universalism and as the years pass, less and less sure about the things I was so certain about before.

I do appreciate what you are trying to say here and I get that. The tone of it seems off for what you are trying to move away from with the fundamentalism. To be honest, it hurt to have your finger pointed so accusingly at us.

I don’t think that “spiritual pride” is the hallmark of the EC exclusively. It’s the hallmark, unfortunately, of most of the modern Christian religion.

In addition, I am wary of making statements like “either you’re saved or you’re damned”. That is between each person and God…I do not wish to be in the position of judging another person’s salvation or if they are “holy enough”. I know that’s not your heart or intent though, but it is how it reads.

My husband is a die-hard idealist. Always has been, always will be. I’m not much of an idealist. However, he is the greatest example of sacrificial love I’ve ever known. So are many other idealists that I personally know. I don’t think that idealism and sacrificial love are at odds at all. Being disillusioned (gratefully so) is a different thing than being idealistic or not.

God isn’t disillusioned with any of us – he had no delusions in the first place!

I may not be paying much attention to the movings and workings therein any longer but I’m not quite so harsh as that one line you linked to would indicate either.

Thanks for opening this up to comments. I know it’s not easy when there is a big discussion and I appreciate your response already posted here in the comments.

Love to you, sister.

Sarah

I have been reading an excellent book on Christian History lately and am amazed and at times flabbergasted by the ignorant views held by Christians throughout the ages. However misguided they were, many of them were able to face a martyr’s death without fear because they knew their Savior in such a personal way. Sure, they boobed up on a lot of the smaller issues but in the end their authentic faith was undeniable. Not once in the entire study of church history have I come across a person or church pattern that was perfect, that had everything all figured out. Looking around at so many of my fellow believers and hearing friends share disheartening experiences from their own churches, I am convinced that none of us have got it perfect either. But does the perfectionism of it all really matter? Remember when Jesus rebuked his disciples when they were trying to hold the monopoly of doing miracles and were outraged when others were doing the same? I love the dialogue: John spoke up, “Teacher, we saw a man using your name to expel demons and we stopped him because he wasn’t in our group.” (What? Did they think Jesus was going to give them a hi-five here?! Quite contrare…) Jesus wasn’t pleased. “Don’t stop him. No one can use my name to do something good and powerful, and in the next breath cut me down. If he’s not an enemy, he’s an ally. Why, anyone by just giving you a cup of water in my name is on our side. Count on it that God will notice.” I’m more and more ashamed to hear my voice repeating, like the disciple’s, “but he wasn’t in our group!” So what? Whose side is he, are we on? The final Judgment Day isn’t being delayed on account of a shortage of available judges, there is only One on that day. Why expend so much energy this side of heaven trying to figure out who’s really found the narrow(-est) way? God alone can judge the heart. We’re allies, y’all! Let’s just root for each other from a heart of love as we each seek to follow our shared Savior.

Much love, EE!!

“My recommendation is that before any Christian idealist sets off to plant a new church, he should try raising a pack of kids.”

I’ll amend your statement a bit, if you don’t mind. Having nearly finished raising ten kids, I often say that everyone needs a rebellious kid. Praise God, none of my kids have been so rebellious that they’ve totally lost their way, but having a difficult kid will cause you to rely on God like no other, and, the added benefit is that I no longer looked down my long nose at young mothers who were attempting to rein in their kids. ONLY God changes the heart, and while our responsibility it to guide, to talk to our kids about Jesus, God, salvation, theology, etc., on a continuum, it is the work of the Spirit that brings change.

It helps to live with sinners (my husband, my kids, and, oh, yeah, I qualify, as well) who drive you to understand (in a finite way) the depravity from which God saved you, and to remember to keep it humble.

Cathy

PS I realize that this is slightly off topic, so feel free to delete it. No big thang (intentionally misspelled and pronounced w/a twang.)

I have really enjoyed reading your blog the past few months. I feel like I’ve gotten to know your heart, so when I read this I ran my reactions through what I assume was the good place you were coming from. I’m not a part of an “emerging church” but I spent a lot of time studying the movement in college and some of my dearest friends and loved ones are those hair-straightening, twittering, idealists you called out in this post.
I’m not going to say much more, because I think others have expressed my initial reactions (and residual ones, having read this yesterday) and I’ve also read your responses in the comments.
I’d just add that I think a lot of these movements is also generational. When I read things like this saying the last thing we need is more idealistic church planters, I can’t help but think that what that really says is the last thing the world needs is my generation. I know that’s probably not what you intended to say with this post, really. But it’s a tiny part of what it made me feel, and I thought I’d share that.

I disagree that an idealist doesn’t have time for holiness. I think an idealist who has Christ as his example and tries to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord will walk in humility, and faithfulness, and goodness with Christ being his ideal, or standard of perfection.

I don’t think somebody who is ego-centric and prideful has time for holiness. If they are only living according to their own ideals of “being big for God” and their own standard is their idea of perfection, than yes, their idealism is only self-focused. We don’t need more of these either.

Any church, old, new, emerging, fundamental, evangelical, traditional, transforming can fall into error if they focus on what they are DOING rather than WHO they claim they are following. When we try to make ourselves holy yes it is very difficult, even impossible. When we allow God to make us holy it is far less complicated. There will be trials because scripture tells us that, but that is because the enemy does not want our lives to be seen by others. If we could but live the words we read in Col 3:15-17 -
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of £Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

We would then be living a life of holiness by who we are every day and what we do every day.