My Opinion is God’s Opinion

I love you and this is why I will spank you until your will is broken.

That was the kind of cognitive dissonance I often experienced inside a cultish fundamentalist church. There were so many times when a woman with a soft, smiling face would say the most hateful and hurtful things. But somehow, because she was using a calm, syrupy voice, she was "speaking the truth in love."

As a child, this kind of passive-aggressive behavior was horribly confusing. I didn't know what to believe. Did I believe the kind, gentle tone of voice or the harsh punishment?

This past week I've been experiencing a similar level of cognitive dissonance. I've been involved in an ongoing discussion with some highly visible Christian bloggers who also happen to be ultra-conservative and write from a hardline fundamentalist perspective. It has been exhausting.

I'm reminded that it's nearly impossible to have meaningful dialogue with people who are convinced they are right. On the one hand, they claim to be all about grace but then they write the most didactic, graceless posts about how their lifestyle is the "true, Biblical" way of life. If you dare disagree with their interpretation of What Is Biblical, well, then you are actually disagreeing with God.

Frankly, the sheer audacity of their claims is astonishing. In the brave new world of "Biblical Blogging," just about anyone can speak conclusively on, say, whether it's "Biblical" for a woman to work outside the home. Except, they'd never admit that these are just their own humble opinions.

No, they actually assert that their interpretation is God's opinion. And if you dare disagree, well, next thing you know they're lamenting about being "persecuted for righteousness' sake."

It would be amusing if it weren't so damaging. 

In these circles, passive-aggressive behavior is often mistaken for holiness. It's OK to pass judgment on the decisions of other mothers so long as you follow it up with a winky-smiley emoticon or an "I love and appreciate you, my beloved sister-in-Christ!" 

I've been quiet here this week because although I am an adult and am able to identify these abusive patterns of behavior, it still has a visceral effect on me. To be honest, my PTSD has flared up. I'm having nightmares and panic attacks.

Here's why: for me, "The Biblical Lifestyle" (as fundamentalists preach it) is not just abstract theory. Maybe for some of these new-wave homemakers who are just discovering the glories of their sacred high-calling, it's all high-flying rhetoric and sparkly promise.

But I've been there. For me and many of my sister survivors, we bear the marks on our own bodies. We know where this kind of ideology ends because we bled for it.

We once ascribed to the glorious principles and the beautiful formulas. We jumped off the cliffs of Sold-Out-Service-For-Jesus-Christ expecting our paper wings to fly. 

And now we lie, broken and bloodied on the rocks below. Up above us we can still hear the triumphal trumpet call, recruiting new jumpers.

But no-one hears our warning cries because no-one looks down before they jump.

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  • http://mecerone.blogspot.com Mary Beth

    Oh sweet wonderful woman. I really tensed up when I saw the title to this post and then look at you. You must have been reading some of the same Jesus wants you to be Susie Homemaker blogs that I was reading this week. (P.S. your tweets cheered me more than once when i needed it.)

    There is something beautiful about theology. If we don’t look at these themes and define terms and sort through the scriptures, then I believe we really miss out on understanding God more deeply and worshiping him more fully. Theology is beautiful and wonderful because it helps us think through issues by defining differences. Free Will or Predestination helps us think through the issue of God’s Sovereignty. MidTrib, PostTrib, Amil helps us sort through Revelation and ses some possible outcomes. And yeah, not all of these views can be right. There is a right answer. And while I will sometimes label myself to help explain where I am in my process of understanding what Scripture says about God, it doesn’t mean I’ve got it right.

    But I get SO frustrated when people say, “This is just what God’s word says. It’s pretty clear.”

    God’s word is pretty clear on some things. I just think everyone ought to exercise a little compassion and continue to truly seek God’s word. I love a healthy debate or a deep conversation. I don’t generally respond well to accusations and sugary sweet condemnation.

  • http://www.extraordinary-ordinary.com Heather of the eo

    This is a favorite post of yours for me. I love the analogy of the jumping and crashing and not looking before leaping.

    Amber from the Run a muck (and her husband, Seth) wrote the most beautiful post about this very thing yesterday. Check it out if you have time.

    Love you.

  • http://www.laundryandlullabiesblogspot.com Emily

    Elizabeth, if it has such a profoundly damaging effect on you, why do you read these blogs? Why not just stay away?

  • Jenelyn

    You are an exceptional writer. And that, my friend, is not just my opinion.

  • Nina

    You are SO REAL. A breath of fresh air. I am so glad I found you. I am praying for you. Please pray for me. May God bring you relief and hope today.

  • http://mecerone.blogspot.com Mary Beth

    Jenelyn,

    Can’t speak for Elizabeth, but for me, I wasn’t expecting it. I just like to read Christian ladies and they all suddenly decided to explode with “extreme Complementarianism is the only way!”

    I also unsubscribed from 2 blogs this week.

  • KatR

    When I was in my former church, I would have much rather dealt with the overt meanness of the men than the candy coated viciousness of the women. Any day of the week.

    I’m sorry about the nightmares. I haven’t had any recently, but when they come I’m always back in the cult, and trying to hide or get away. Under the bed. In a closet. Out the window. And they will usually happen four or five nights in a row.

  • Carolyne

    It is sometimes so *very* difficult to silence the voices of those on the sidelines who think they have the Word of the Lord for you.
    In those dark areas where we must walk, (where even Jesus sweat drops of blood while dealing with what He had been given to do!!!), the One and only voice that we can be sure of is the Voice of the Shepherd of our soul. The One who created us to hear His voice. The One who gave this same message to Israel so long ago, through Moses, his servant….
    “The eternal God is your refuge,
    and underneath are the everlasting arms.” Deuteronomy 33:27

    Maybe deep conversations cannot be Real in an arena as open as this. Darkness is relative; particular to an individual and situation. The only voice I can *truly* trust when walking through my own darkness, is the One who I know will shelter me because He created me.
    As much as I crave to know and be known, those Everlasting Arms have been carrying me.
    Iā™”U

  • http://silly-bear.com Sarah

    I too have read many of these home-making is the only way posts, tweets, and on-going debate through out the blogging sphere. I always struggle with those “who speak the truth in love.” Before you can speak the truth, I must know that you love me, and after reading these posts, I see so very little love for those who don’t agree. My experiences in the faith community are not all golden, sunny rays of happiness–I licking the wounds inflicted by my fellow-Christians. I pray that your wounds are soothed by the sweet balm of grace.

  • http://www.elizabethesther.com Elizabeth Esther

    Emily: good point. Like Mary Beth mentioned below–sometimes it comes out of left field. Like maybe I can read these blogs and find something to appreciate and/or I feel a kinship with them. But then BAM! It explodes into hyper-craziness and I’m broadsided. I have blocked one particular blogger and am definitely staying away from the others!

  • http://www.workwifemomlife.com julia

    found this from Heather of the EO… and i must say… a very well-written post indeed. i’ve been reading said blogs you speak of lately and it’s been so disheartening. Not just because I’m a working mom (who, mind you, thinks I manage my home pretty darn well) but b/c there are so many CHRISTIAN women arguing about who’s right. Christian women unsubscribing from other Christian women’s blogs b/c of it. so much tension… and I thought this was only happening in the “unsaved” blogging community.

    we certainly don’t need this, ladies!! Unite in the NAME OF THE LORD!!!! I know for a fact… i really do… that these bloggers are not meaning to put down working moms at all. I really do truly believe their heart when they say that. But really, let’s get it together and support. There are so many “gray” areas that CHRISTIAN’S can interpret different ways. Instead of saying “you should stay home or work or make your bread from scratch” how about we uplift each other and support each other so all the NON christians will see the love of Jesus.

    Can you imagine how this debate looks to the unsaved???

    Fabulous post. First time to your blog… and I’ll be back for sure.

  • http://heart-and-home.net Ashleigh (Heart and Home)

    I’m in tears. This is powerful.

    I wish they’d listen to the bleeding ones first. But they don’t… they plug their ears–lalalala–writing off our stories as the exception, not the rule. Finding fault in us, in the way we did it, instead of examining the system itself.

    I know. Because I spent most of my life doing the exact same thing.

    Also? As Heather said, you MUST read Amber’s post.

  • http://www.jillofalltradescraft.com KelsyC

    Thank you for this post. Saw the link on Twitter. This is just what I needed to hear right now.

  • http://www.thepilotswife.org Emily @The Pilot’s Wife

    This? This is incredible. So true and beautiful and heartbreaking.

    I have chills.

  • http://adamthedad.wordpress.com Adam

    This stuff just kills me, there are so many layers to the bible and you have to take them all together to find the true meaning of God’s word. The hard line fundamentalists dig until they find the meaning they want and then look no further. People forget the top to rules that Jesus gave us, Love your God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. If the meaning you find conflicts with those two things, then you’ve got it wrong.

  • http://myjourney-brittany.blogspot.com Brittany

    Elizabeth, your writing it so raw, and so real. It truly is beautiful. Thank you for speaking your heart in such a way that it does not bring condemnation, but instead it brings grace. I agree with every word you wrote in this post.

  • http://www.heidijowhatdoyouknow.blogspot.com Heidi Jo

    well thank you for not linking us up to the blogs. i am in a great mood and wouldn’t want to spoil it by being told how ungodly my life is. :o ) not that a little guidance and criticism isn’t in order for me every now and again. i just don’t look to the blog world to find it. sitting in front of the tabernacle—now that’s a place where love corrects, directs, and heals wounds….kindly.

  • http://www.joyinthisjourney.com Joy – Joy in This Journey

    I was confronted by someone in one of those almost-cultish-but-not-quite-there churches about my “not very veiled anger” that I’ve displayed this week in my posts and comments, both on my blog and on Facebook. I posted links to a few of those blog posts about women and got into a number of discussions. So now I’m teetering on the edge of unsaved-agnosticism.

    Someone else, a woman I respect very much actually, expressed concern about how much I wrote on Monday. It was a blend of “you might lead someone into sin” and “you never know how others may use that information against you.” Everything in me rejects both of those arguments.

    And then a third person emailed that she was concerned for my salvation.

    *sigh*

    I’m totally worn out, with you. It’s like watching your child fall in slow-motion but being unable to reach out and stop them in time.

    I pray that the nightmares stop and you are able to rest.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/1235951019s31592 Sara Sophia

    Dearest Elizabeth,
    I was introduced to you, your writing, a bit of your heart by Ashleigh of Heart and Home.

    I feel your hurt—and I am so so sorry.

    I don’t know, even after all these years, how to respond to others who would have a woman of God believe she’s not good enough based on actions…when the Savior told us there was nothing we could DO to be saved. I have spent a lifetime seeking..and been rescued by grace alone from a long struggle with an eating disorder….trying to understand the logic. Beyond the law and the prophets and the condensing down to the great big neon sign that reads
    “LOVE LOVE LOVE” that Jesus gave us;
    I don’t see the point.

    I’ll spend my life in love.
    And I wish I could come bring you coffee and doughnuts and talk about SOMETHING ELSE.

    I don’t know…maybe Spongebob.
    (and I really don’t like Spongebob)

    But maybe it would make us feel better.

    …and yes, go read Amber’s post.
    It wins all the prizes and says it best.

    Sara Sophia

  • http://pinkdaisyjane.blogspot.com Heatherly

    Beautiful post. Thank you for your vulnerability and for the reminder to all of us to use grace in our speech, even when we do think we might be right.

    I’m praying that others will extend so much grace to the writers you mentioned that they will start to see what walking this walk is really all about.

  • Maggie Dee

    I heard once that the taking of God’s name in vain isn’t just using his name as a cuss word. It’s actually saying that we speak for him. I think it’s very dangerous territory for anyone to say “God told me to tell you such and such” (in love of course, sheesh). I for one am not going to speak for the creator of the universe. As far as I’m concerned that’s the job of the Holy Spirit.

    I’m so tired of the mommy/christian/women wars. Where’s the grace? Where’s the love?

    I really appreciate how you articulate your heart so openly in this blog.

  • http://www.reflectionsofaprincess.com Jessica

    “And while I will sometimes label myself to help explain where I am in my process of understanding what Scripture says about God, it doesn’t mean I’ve got it right.”

    Oh…gotta love that. This is what I’m learning more and more about myself. Instead of taking such a hard line on what I believe about everything to remember that, honestly, there are some issues that are open and some closed.

    Was Jesus born of a virgin? Was he really the Son of God? Did his death & resurrection really pay the penalty for my sins?—For me, these are all closed issues. The answer has to be yes, because they are the basis of our faith & hope.

    But whether you homeschool or public school, are a stay at home or working mom, how many kids you have, etc–are open issues. You have to go to the Word and decide what they mean for your family. There’s lots of principles, but not everything is an absolute.

    And I hope I never get to the point where I believe something to the point I’m hitting someone over the head with it.

  • http://www.emergingmummy.com Sarah@EmergingMummy

    I’ve actually written about 17 comments and erased all of them here. I can’t seem to quite say what I want to say. After wading into it myself this week and having some muck thrown my way, my share of nasty emails with syrupy “spoken in love” hatred and anger, I can only say: thank you. Even those of us that didn’t come out of fundamentalism are impacted by this type of disastrous thinking.

  • http://www.inamirrordimly.com ed cyzewski

    Beautiful post about a dark side to Christianity. I think it’s important to talk about this because such underhanded, manipulative, passive-aggressive tactics can be quite destructive when they are not detected. Thank you for sharing the truth in a true spirit of love, even if it was surely a painful process.

  • Sarah Denley

    I think I know which blogs you are talking about and to a very large degree, I agree with you. I definitely agree with the majority of your post, but I do take issue with one thing. Saying that that kind of ideology will end in child abuse is kind of harsh on your part, too, don’t you think? My apologizes if I read that incorrectly.

  • http://www.jesusneedsnewpr.net mpt

    Wow. I have tears my eyes. Though, because I have a penis, I won’t pretend to know and understand every nuance of this discussion. But I did my fair share of jumping and bleeding.

    Thank you, Elizabeth, for braving the elements of your past and letting your readers catch a glimpse of what you experienced.

    Your stories are being heard.

  • http://www.elizabethesther.com Elizabeth Esther

    I’m not saying that kind of theology ALWAYS ends in abuse. It’s not an absolute. But if there are dark clouds in the sky, I’m not gonna be surprised if it starts raining, y’know?

  • http://www.nicolewick.com Nicole WIck

    I love this post, and I love you my friend. Love you. Wonderful post. Praying for you… and for all of us seeking the real truth.

  • http://www.elizabethesther.com Elizabeth Esther

    I think in many ways this kind of abuse flies under the radar because it’s so sneaky. People have a hard time identifying abusive behavior when it’s cloaked in lots of sugar.

  • http://www.pleasingtoyou.com Teri Lynne Underwood

    LOVE this and the grace with which you have handled yourself the past few weeks. I’ve been observing and praying on Twitter and in blogs … reading and crying for isn’t this exactly what the enemy wants? To divide us over things that are not eternal to keep us from focusing on that which is??

    It is a very dangerous thing to turn conviction in your own life into command for someone else … and I fear this is exactly what is happening. Heartbreaking.

    Your grace and love for Christ have shown through every single tweet and comment as they do in this post.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/monicabrand Monicabrand

    well, it looks like I’m reading the wrong blogs and I’m missing all the drama. somebody shoot me a link

  • http://waterwatereverywhere.blogspot.com MainlineMom aka Sarah

    Thank you so much, Elizabeth, for your words…far more poignant and meaningful than my own. I, too, have been filled with anxiety over this all week. I don’t have the reasons you have to be so upset, but I think it DID blindside me. I was going along feeling uplifted and encouraged by these bloggers and suddenly I am wounded, angered, saddened. I think over and over about how this whole thing appears to the unsaved. Finally today I tried to express my thoughts in a post about it, but I just can’t get it all out. I’m not as bold or willing to be as vulnerable as you. So thank you.

  • frogla

    last summer i got a great gift *ahem* not really. I found out that my husband of almost 12 years was raised in a cultish family. you ask, “how could you not know this?” I say, “i had some suspicions about certain things but never did i think oh, it’s DEF a cult.” Uh, i didn’t know he & his family were cultish until my husband & i met with a christian cult interventionist last summer for 2wks. this is NOT what i ordered in a husband God. what in the helicopter did i get myself into?

    when i met his family almost 20yrs ago, i felt instantly loved accepted and in a safe place. i was only 20 when i met the boy and his family. what did i know? i had escaped from a physically & emotionally abusive house so his family seemed sooo great compared to mine. boy was i wrong.

    my husband’s parents spanked he & the sibs until they made these specific sobs and said they were sorry to the parents. sometimes it was a very long spanking with lots of bruising & all done with a soft smiley so called loving voice. They brag we learned all this @ Gothard seminar. Blah!!!

    The cult interventionist said, “well, he hasn’t exited from his family so he’s cult hopping.” Oh great! Not only was i dealt a crappy immediate family but my husband and his family are NOT @ all what they seemed & my husband is shopping around for cults.

    I think that this post is very much what i am going thru on a daily basis so it seems. we really need each other for support more than ever! thnx!

  • frogla

    oh, in saying that his parents spanked he and the sibs, this broke his will so that he & the other children could be programmed to do whatever the parents wanted. i asked them once why they chose this method and they responded confidently with cuz it makes it easier for the parents when you have this many kids. I was like really? was i mistaken @ how these ppl really are when you get to know them. urg!

  • Joe Crenshaw

    I understand this has been an intense conversation. I understand that both sides the liberal Christians who tend to run from the harsh truths of GOD’s word and use their intelligence to excuse what GOD obviously has stated.

    On the other side you have those who are conservative Christians who think being conservative and traditional is being a Christian and they too in being dogmatic miss the truth that GOD has obviously stated.

    One side misses it because they are squeezing too hard, the other side misses it because they are not holding on too loosely.

    I like most of the liberals and conservatives grew up in a fundamentalist home that taught me truth and taught me error. So I do understand the backgrounds.

    But as you clearly stated, when we use opinion over truth, what we do is destroy the truth we so claim to hold sacred.

    Intelligent and thoughtful post.

  • http://musingsofacatholiclady.blogspot.com Michelle

    Elizabeth, thank you for sharing this. I haven’t been out and about much in the blogosphere this week, but to read this today, I know I have been there and seen it before.

    As a Catholic who strives to walk the path with Jesus, I can tell you that many times I have run across people who would say I am not living a Biblical life because I work a full-time job outside the home 40+ hours per week. Even within a circle of CAtholic families who are faithful to the Church in matters of family planning…there are judgments made about whether so-and-so *REALLY* has a “serious” or “grave” reason to avoid pregnancy. I mean, really…Things that are completely between a married couple and God through prayer and discernment (i.e., whether the mom must work outside the home, or whether it’s time for another baby)…people see fit to name and judge.

    Hang in there. I enjoy reading your posts on this, yet they also make my heart cry for you.

  • http://scatteredmoments.blogspot.com/ Kori

    As a woman who has been on a long journey struggling through the fundamentalist ideals I grew up with and carried into my adulthood I so appreciate your voice. I so easily get pulled into a mode of guilt/shame when I am surrounded by those voices saying I should be a certain kind of mom/woman when everything in me is screaming “but that’s not me!” Your words help me not feel alone and free to continue to pursue God with passionate love rather than out of fear.

  • http://civillascybercafe.blogspot.com Mary R.

    I find the things you mention as open issues (I agree) stem from N.T. PRINCIPLES (keeper at home, for example, does that mean you must stay there 24/7 and not even do volunteer work) — not laws or mandates. Once you make something a law or mandate, then you open it up for loopholes in those laws like the Pharisees did. These, like you say, should motivate Christians to go to the Word and pray and see what these principles mean for your family.

  • http://civillascybercafe.blogspot.com Mary R.

    Continued…if they are PRINCIPLES, now you need discernment from the Lord as to what it translates for YOU — part of the ongoing PERSONAL relationship with Christ. You don’t have a personal relationship with a system of laws, which is why the new covenant is better than the old.

  • http://civillascybercafe.blogspot.com Mary R.

    I try to find kinship with people like this, too, as I want to fellowship with serious Christians, but the fellowship is not returned. I’m seen as a second-class Christian, if a Christian at all. This is hurtful. They will not allow you a personal relationship with the Lord. Not really. Sad.

  • http://sevenlittleaustralians.blogspot.com/ Erin

    Oh hugs{{}} I ask myself two questions when choosing what blogs to read; does this blog nurture me in my vocation as a mother, does it bring me closer to The Lord? I was going to ask Emily’s question but you have answered that, disturbing.

  • http://civillascybercafe.blogspot.com Mary R.

    While I agree with much of what they have to say, I don’t like the scoffing tone they use toward those who disagree with them. Yes, they are scoffed at, but since when are we to return scoffing. I don’t like the counter-scoffing: “Have you heard what THEY are doing now?” Make a rebuttal, yes, if you have been disagreed with, but this scoffing/counter scoffing bugs me. The “tit-for-tat.” You don’t make friends for your cause that way.

  • http://andi-horton.livejournal.com Andrea

    Any time I need to be encouraged and reminded that there is still balance in the blogosphere, I come here to drink in what you have shared. I think you are a good and needful antidote to that hardline extremism you describe, and I treasure you as such (and as many other wonderful things too!)

    I don’t even have the desire to really engage in the sort of discussions to which you refer, so I admire that you are able to discuss these things at all, PTSD notwithstanding. When I see matters taking a turn for the “This Or Nothing” style of discussion in just about any venue, I usually turn away to something else. Angry people make my stomach hurt– I think that’s why I particularly admire anybody who can engage them in discussion, in the hope that they have it within them to become a gentler, more understanding version of what they once were. I covet that ability; I know it’s certainly not a trait of mine!

    Thank you for being so transparently, authentically YOU. Your voice counts, Elizabeth; it matters.

  • http://thechurchfanatic.blogspot.com LLMom

    Do you find it difficult to read about these things? I am finding I need to totally stay away from these type of people right now.

  • http://keepupwiththejs.wordpress.com/ Jessica Johnson

    Great post, Elizabeth. It has always been my desire that my children come to a sincere and REAL relationship with Christ, not one that was spanked into them. While I take very seriously my role as a Christian parent in teaching and SHOWING God’s character and love, I worry that, sadly, extreme fundamental parenting leaves Him out most of time. If I beat my child into faith, does she truly believe? Does she even know what she believes? Does she CARE what she believes? Or does she just agree with me and “follow God’s rules” to avoid punishment. Scary stuff. With very damaging consequences.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/prestonyancey Prestonyancey

    Elizabeth, I told you earlier today that every time I read you, I think of the quote from Mother Theresa, and this post is no exception. Quite honestly, in many ways it may as well be the rule. It’s remarkable for me to read the clear suffering that you have endured. Not suffering in any sense of desiring to draw attention to yourself, but the honest suffering that is only expressed well by someone willing to shed pretense in favor of Christ’s openness. My Mother has suffered for twelve years with a chronic, horrendously painful disease. Though the two worlds are different in some ways, the anguish, loss, challenge, foolishness of some people who “know exactly what you’re going through because they had a friend once who . . .,” and all the rest that comes with it are very similar. All that is to say, the reason this kind of post is the rule for seeing God’s love letter through your hand is that you crashed with your paper wings and yet you still found your way back to Him. I don’t care one blankity blank bit what a fundamentalist thinks they know about grace. I watch and experience grace each time someone who has gone through what you have still boldly claims the love of Christ. That is grace in motion, that is grace that proves the existence of things hoped for. Keep going, my brave Sister-in-Christ, because you’re slaying dragons through your willingness to love in spite of all the unloving, and He’s moving in the waters you stir.

  • LizzyZ

    Thank you for sharing.

    I’m reading “Parenting Is Your Highest Calling (and 8 other myths that trap us in worry and guilt)” by Leslie Leyland Fields for the second time and what you’re saying reminds me of a bit I just read. Basically, that when you dig in the Bible for God’s “prescriptions” on raising children, it can be strangely quiet. There are some broad things like “train up a child in the way he should go (emphasis mine)” but God doesn’t tell us exactly how to do that. Baby-wearing or scheduled feedings? Homeschooling, public, or private school? A homesteading at-home centered environment or privileged and doted upon? He doesn’t say.

    I find that so freeing! It’s about your relationship with your child and your relationship to God and the interplay there with all the different personalities. So cool! Now why do other people think they have a mandate from god to fill in the blanks? Sure, we can learn from other peoples’ experiences but I’ve found that the whole idea of “this is how God wants you to train your children” to be at the best naive, at worst, heretical.

  • http://www.aspergersmom.wordpress.com Rachel

    Excellently put sweetie! ;-) I think for me, there is an added dimension in that not only I jumped, but before I could even choose, my parents jumped off that cliff and dragged me with them.

    I too have been having a biblical discussion with a family member who happens to be an associate pastor and a stanch Calvinist. The nightmares showed up last night. Reading this today, helped. Thank you!

    Love you!

  • http://www.darkglassponderings.blogspot.com/ Julia

    I know you and some of our fans visited my site recently. I don’t think this is directed at my posts but I do hope I didn’t hurt anyone that struggles with depression further. I wasn’t wanting to be a condemning voice at all. In fact, I’m very much speaking out of my own pain…because I’ve been in the pit. There aren’t any easy answers in my opinion.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/rocksinmydryer Shannon

    I could write an eight-chapter comment on this post, but I’ll resist that urge, except to say, YES MA’AM. I understand. And a couple of years ago I had to stop reading those blogs, because I realized nothing good was coming of it.

    The older I get, the less I realize I know. And the more comfortable I get with that. I know *Who* I know, and the rest is just gravy.

  • http://heart-and-home.net Ashleigh (Heart and Home)

    “I know *Who* I know, and the rest is just gravy.”

    Yes. THAT.

    Shannon, I miss you. <3

  • http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

    Unfortunately, the attitude and condition you describe is hardly limited to “cultish” expressions of Christianity. They are a lot more mainstream than that. The first line of your post captures the heart of Dobson’s approach to child-rearing. It’s most explicitly outlined in hist “Strong-Willed Child” book. A time when an anecdote from that book was read in a sermon was one of those times I mentioned shaking with rage. I did read the book after that, though I often felt like throwing it against the wall. And Dobson and Focus on the Family is pretty “mainstream” right wing American Christianity.

  • Agnes

    ‘I watch and experience grace each time someone who has gone through what you have still boldly claims the love of Christ.’

    Amen. I think, for me, that says it all.

  • http://www.bigmama247.com Alise

    What I find frustrating is the lack of grace, both for others and for themselves. I just saw someone close to me “confessing” that she fed her kids boxed mac & cheese and even (horror!) spaghetti-o’s. Which means that she’s beating up herself for doing that and probably thinks less of others who do the same. How depressing!

    And when that’s all wrapped up in some kind of “biblical” what have you, it makes it all the worse.

  • http://ifmeadowsspeak.blogspot.com/ Tammy@if meadows speak…

    I too, like Emily earlier posted, wonder why engage these type folks? No disagreement will be allowed from these type folks, either you’ll be shunned or admonished for not seeing the ‘truth’.

    I’ve been called to be a homemaker/homeschooler, BUT mine is based on love for family. Having been around these rigid-type fundamentalists (in the past), I know the degree of difficulty in communicating with them. Our family’s question about church decisions eventually lead to our ‘shunning’. So I agree with Mary R., you can’t have a long term friendship with them unless you follow their ideology.

    I’d suggest, finding some graceful Christians who have a strong walk with Christ. Not the other types where commandments of men become guidelines of how to live like a ‘Christ’ian. Jesus addressed those:

    “Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him (Jesus), ‘Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?’ He answered and said to them, ‘Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ā€˜ This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’” Mark 7:5-7(NKJ)

    Much Grace to you EE!

  • http://ifmeadowsspeak.blogspot.com/ Tammy@if meadows speak..

    Ps. The fundamental-type community where we were exposed to wasn’t as extreme as yours. It was more subtle and so it took longer (with lots of Biblical searching) to finally figure out something was wrong. Your blog has been very enlightening to me/us and shed even more light on that past situation. Thanks!

  • http://www.HappyOnMyBehalf.com Betsy@HappyOnMyBehalf

    Oh Precious lover of Christ, don’t let these women get to you. We can have mercy on them. They don’t know that it’s OK with God if they feel anger, if they feel hurt, if they need to cry or scream or just FEEL. They need our prayers (as you have so beautifully pointed out many times before).

    You can’t let those who are still chained make you feel crazy because you aren’t shackled. We both know what it means to put on a religious mask (though you much better than I), and they simply can’t help it.

    I will pray for you, and this is what I’m praying: that Christ will complete this amazing and deep whatever He’s doing in your heart. You are being stretched, and your freedom is being challenged, and I just KNOW that you are going to come back even more able to minister to these hurting women who can’t even admit that they hurt!

    Cheering for you, and marveling at Christ’s goodness in you,
    Betsy

  • jessica

    Thank you so much for bearing your soul…you have an amazing written voice. I have to say that this reality of needing to have absolute truth and authority on my own is what led my husband and me to the Catholic church. It is a restful place to be having an authority I can trust that and look to as I work out my salvation with fear and trembling. God bless you! Thanks again for sharing yourself with us.

  • http://www.thejoyofhome.blogspot.com Dianna

    There certainly is a difference between biblical truth and convictions. As many others have said, you have to read Scripture, pray, and ask the Lord to guide you in making decisions about your family. My husband and I actually listened to a sermon (more like a lecture) from Vision Forum’s Doug Wilson (someone wanted my husband to listen to it) and we didn’t like it at all. He comes across as arrogant and that his convictions are gospel, which they are not. However, I find that most Christians (especially in our traditional, southern baptist church) don’t even think about what God’s Word says about marriage, parenting, and life in general. They just go along with the culture. Maybe that is the point of some of the blogs you have read (I don’t know what they are) to try to get other Christians to think about these issues? Even though I think it is best for a mom to stay home with her kids, I’m certainly not going to say that is sinful to work. Only God judges our heart and our motives.

  • http://www.dreamsdiapersanddilemmas.blogspot.com Tanya @ Life in 3D

    Just found your post via Twitter.

    I have been SO turned off by these bloggers and Tweeters in the past few weeks…I innocently followed a #hashtag and BAM!!…I’ve found myself FUMING to my husband out of nowhere about people he doesn’t even know {nor do I for that matter!}. He looks at me like I’m nuts and I feel my mind swirling like it used to when I was in youth group and all of the passive aggressive insanity was part of my everyday world….SO unhealthy!

    You are refreshing and a breath of fresh air! Speak it sister!

  • http://www.number17cherrytreelane.com No.17 CherryTreeLane

    Elizabeth,
    It’s interesting that I read this post because I have been keeping up with this whole online discussion. It got to a point where I was so tired and sad that these are the topics that are having energy expended on them. Of course I have my opinion, who doesn’t….but this week, I have walked away from the computer more than once and realized that we are fighting the wrong fights and spending time on the wrong things. In the end, woman working outside the home or inside the home is not a salvation issue. It’s not black and white and those that chose to make it such are diminishing their validity in my opinion. How very sad that us Christians chose to play God.
    Thank you for your post.

  • http://lauriemo.blogspot.com laurie

    Wow, how did I miss this post!? Well, I found it today. Amazing. Stay out of my mailbox, would you?! Oh, wait, I almost forgot the :-)

  • Amanda

    I have been following the “Biblical Blog” in question for some time, and have just found yours today. Although I am in agreement with much of what I read this week on that blog, I also agree with and appreciate your post here and have just spent quite a bit of time scanning down the comments–mostly because I have struggled to put my finger on what it is that has troubled me about this topic and the ways in which it has been addressed. And this is what I’ve decided: it appears that we ALL serve the same God, and that His scripture tells me that HE is much larger than all this scrapping. I think you, Elizabeth Esther, make a fantastic point about counting the cost.

    However, I’m not sure I will be reading either blog again because I’m now convinced of one thing: In my life, placed by the Lord as I have been, I know and am in a position to minister to women up and down the at home/working spectrum. I am at home, keeping house, after having given up a career. But mostly, I’m learning that the life I live now in the flesh I live by grace in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. And ultimately it will be neither the curtains I hang or the career I build (or, the daughters I encourage to hang curtains/career build) that I account for when my Earth-time is gone. My goal is to become, and train my children to become, disciples of Christ who set off alarms in Hell when they wake up each morning! Ladies, we don’t have time for this. Seek first His kingdom, and let these (other, lesser) things be added.

  • Amanda

    Also, I can relate to your childhood conundrum of wondering whether to believe the words said or the actions behind them. Spanking a child until their will is broken is not Scriptural either, I think it’s safe to say.

  • http://www.adamshome.blogspot.com erin

    I love this book, too! I, too, am reading it a second time. This time with a little group of women.

  • Karen

    I’m new to your blog Elizabeth, but I LOVE it! Thank you for digging so deep and laying it all out there for us. I respect you so much.

    As a cradle Catholic, I struggle with the “living the Bible” and “how does that glorify God” conversations I have with my born-again best friend, and her “we’ll agree to disagree” view. She’s known “the truth” for like five minutes….and she’s teaching ME a lesson?

    Frustrating.