On so-called “Biblical Womanhood”

IMG_0077 I haven't talked to my daughter yet about "Biblical Womanhood" because most of what is taught about that topic can be boiled down to: God created women to serve men.

Which theology is very convenient, provided you're a man. 

True religion is supposed to abolish gender inequality, not capitalize on it. Religions that spiritualize base human desires like lust, greed or ambition are supposed to be non-Christian. But you wouldn't know that from reading some of today's most popular Christian books and blogs.

Patriarchy, it seems, is making a comeback. Proponents of this lifestyle even call themselves patriarchal–reclaiming that pejorative label as a badge of honor. Bestselling Christian books espouse the ideals of passionate,"Biblical Womanhood" or offer suggestions for becoming what God created you to be: your husband's helpmeet.

These books and blogs often assert that a woman's highest calling is to become a wife and a stay-at-home mother. Why? Because she was born with a uterus, of course.

It's a theology that abnegates personhood because it doesn't matter WHO you are, only WHAT you are: male or female?

Most troubling about this trend is that it's being led by women. Women are the authors of these books and blogs, women are the speakers at church retreats.

You know Operation Oppression has been successful when the oppressed start enforcing the oppression. It's a particularly frightening success made all the more virulent when led by zealous Christian women claiming to do "God's will." 

How does one argue with God? And even more disturbing, since when did Christians embrace Biblical interpretation that catered to human instinct instead of restraining it?

But apparently, this is the kind of "Christianity" that sells. 

As a former fundamentalist, it's been alarming for me to watch what were once the extremist doctrines of my fringe childhood church go mainstream. Blogs, books and conferences become instantly popular as soon as they start promoting the "Biblical Manhood" and "Biblical Womanhood" worldview.

Even the TV show like TLC'$ "18 Kid$ & Counting" ha$ developed $omething akin to a cult following. 

Still, I understand what these Christians are reacting against. Among these groups, it's a given that one of society's greatest evils stems from an overreaching, intrusive feminism. Feminism is blamed for everything from the emasculation of men, the legalization of abortion, the explosion of divorce.

And while I'm partially sympathetic to their criticism of the more strident forms of feminism, it's pretty clear that their reaction has gone over a cliff in its own way. Most tellingly are the practical implications resulting from a return to strict Biblical literalism.

As a friend of mine recently noted, the popular book "Created to Be His Helpmeet" by Debi Pearl reads like a manual for how-to-be an abused woman.

When you start exploring these ideas of "Biblical Womanhood," what these books really promote is: How To Subjugate Your Entire Being To The Dictate of Your Lord and Master (and we mean your husband, not God).

I have tried for years to talk reasonably with the folks who espouse the "Biblical Womanhood" worldview. Having come from a church that imploded after years of the same kind of legalistic practice, I thought they'd listen to me. It's usually an exercise in futility.

There's nothing so irrational as a person who believes they've inherited their opinion directly from God.

For one thing, there is a tendency for these women to get all hung up on literally translating Biblical sentence fragments. They hang onto these snippets as if their salvation depended on it.

Take, for example, Ephesians 5:24: "But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives out to be to their husbands in everything."

"See?" these ladies will say, "THE BIBLE SAYS be subject IN EVERYTHING!"

Sometimes I just want to pat their backs, feed them cookies and say, "There, there. No need to get all worked up about a sentence fragment."

I mean, the practical implications of literally translating "be subject…IN EVERYTHING" are fairly astounding–especially if you're married to an overbearing, abusive husband.

So, if preachers aren't ready to backup a husband's command that his wife jump off a cliff, then maybe they shouldn't preach Ephesians 5 like it's a literal blueprint for How To Live Your Life.

A better approach would be to say, "These can be some useful guidelines." But it's becoming increasingly rare to hear moderate approaches on anything having to do with "Biblical Womanhood." It's gotten to the point that even pointing out the Bible verse that calls for mutual submission is tantamount to questioning "God-given gender roles."

Apparently, some Bible verses are to be taken more literally than others–even if they appear in the same chapter.

It's all very discouraging. 

But my daughter isn't discouraged. She has plans, this one. She wants to become a professional ballerina.

So, I'll gladly shield her from the madness.

Because maybe, just maybe God created my daughter to…dance.

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This entry was posted in Fundie Hierarchies, Michael & Debi Pearl, Parenting--toughest job out there, RecoveringFundamentalist, Religion. Bookmark the permalink.
  • http://whitewashedfeminist.wordpress.com Cally Tyrol

    I hear you! Slap the word “Biblical” or “Christian” in front of anything and you can almost get away with it: “Christian acting” or “Biblical principles for home education”. Don’t forget to end your sentences with a Scripture reference! Then your argument is especially convincing (Acts 17:11).

  • http://www.scribblesnz.blogspot.com Scribbles

    I don’t often comment but I felt I could contribute to this discussion. My man and I certainly don’t hold ourselves up as the perfect example of Christian living. We both believe in God, that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save us from our sins but we also live together (soon to be engaged) so believe me when I say I come from no background in which I can throw stones.
    We consider our relationship a team effort and we both contribute in the ways that we feel best suited. When we make decisions it is with consultation and discussion but ultimately as head of our household, SB makes the final decision.
    I believe that in an ideal situation, the man should be the head of the household but, like you said, this is a guideline. The only reason this works for us is because I know that he loves me, I know that we are a team and I trust him to make the decisions that value me as a person and value our future together.

    But hey, I’m an imperfect human being just trying to muddle my way through this life as best I can.

  • Jenelle

    Because we were young and like to stir, we actually had the sermon for our wedding based on Ephesians 5. My husbands family (nominally catholic at best) almost jumped out of their seats when they heard the reading, but they came around when they heard the sermon.
    Our pastor had a really good explanation about how it actually should be taken with the last verse of chapter 4 (‘submit to one another … ‘ etc) and should be taken that each partner equally submits to the other.

  • http://ouraussiehalf-dozen.blogspot.com Catherine

    My daughter wants to be a professional ballerina too.

  • http://highcountries.wordpress.com Jamie

    i agree that the debi pearl book is madness. utter madness. a husband gets crabby and throws down the trash bag next to the trash can, and the wife is supposed to “help” her husband by covering up his anger and childishness by going out and picking up the trash herself, not saying a word, of course. ICK. that is SO NOT a marriage!!!

    but i have read (parts of) a really really good book on biblical femininity: “recovering biblical manhood and womanhood” ed. by john piper and wayne grudem. there is one essay in there by elisabeth elliot that i particularly enjoyed. she talked about the feminine quality of receiving, and her language and terms spoke to me more than the oft-used gentle/quiet/submissive track.

  • Ricardo

    I think this is worth reading for you:

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

    Just a few small excerpts:

    Therefore when we read in the biblical description the words addressed to the woman: “Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you” (Gen 3:16), we discover a break and a constant threat precisely in regard to this “unity of the two” which corresponds to the dignity of the image and likeness of God in both of them. But this threat is more serious for the woman, since domination takes the place of “being a sincere gift” and therefore living “for” the other: “he shall rule over you”. This “domination” indicates the disturbance and loss of the stability of that fundamental equality which the man and the woman possess in the “unity of the two”: and this is especially to the disadvantage of the woman, whereas only the equality resulting from their dignity as persons can give to their mutual relationship the character of an authentic “communio personarum”.

  • http://www.JanetOber.com Janet Oberholtzer

    Your daughter is one lucky girl … having you for a mom!!

    I can totally identify with this sentence … “It’s gotten to the point that even pointing out the Bible verse that calls for mutual submission is tantamount to questioning “God-given gender roles.”

    Growing up in a very traditional Mennonite church, I asked my parents that all the time and never got good answers.

    20 years ago, I left that church (parents & family are still there) and I liked the freedom in the non-denominational church I then attended, but over the past few years, I been so sadden to see more and more of the Patriarch mindset creeping in there. And you are right … it’s taught/encouraged by women – ugh!

    For that reason (and a few others) … I’ve left that church and am now looking for a new one, or maybe not. Right now, I enjoy going for walks/runs on Sunday mornings, it’s so freeing!

    And to your daughter … dance, girl, dance!

  • http://mecerone.blogspot.com Mary Beth

    I usually get a tad bit nervous when you address such issues. While I normally take your side on such matters, sometimes your previous experiences leave you angry and overly emotional. This post, however, was passionate and true.:)

    I believe that there is a biblical command for a woman to submit to her husband. And while dating, I was very careful to make sure I was marrying a man who was reasonable, loving, listened to me… someone I could ne sure to submit to.

    However, this submission means that we are partners in life. Right now, it means I am the primary breadwinner. And when we have really big disagreements, at the end of the day, I try to submit to his decision, while he tries to love me and do what’s best for me. I have to tell you, I usually get my way. ;)

    The ideas that men become morally culpable for your sins… that you hand over all responsibility for your life? It’s dangerous if your husband is you know… human. And downright lazy even if you are married to a saint. Men want partners in life, not silent cooks.

    And this stay at home don’t work thing?? Puritan women worked. On the farm. Very hard. Luthers’ wife ran that place, made the money, and supported her husband. This idea that women should stay home is a leftover idea from the Victorian era where it was a sign of wealth. And ps, they hired candies.

    Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful post.

  • http://mecerone.blogspot.com Mary Beth

    Nannies not candies!! Seesh, autocorrect!

  • elledee

    Very well said. I sometimes struggle watching this occur because of the inevitable judgment I feel. I am married, childless, working, and happy. I work in what was a male-driven industry for years, I’m gifted and well-suited for the work I do, and it’s not “waiting to long to have children” if I’ve never hoped to have children any way.

    I love my friends’ children, and coloring with one of them the other day was exactly what I needed, but just the coloring. Not the toddler. I wake up the next day still excited to go to work. If your daughter was made to dance, I feel the same: like I was made for my work in the criminal justice process.

  • shadowspring

    Beautiful.

  • http://therosarytrail.com/ Margo

    I enjoyed reading this. What great points you made! I cringe when a person takes something out of the Bible and gives it his/her own personal spin. Johnette Benkovic on the EWTN network hosts a show called “Women of Grace” where she frequently has episodes that address the very issue you are speaking of! I think balance in everything is key, and, unfortunately, when balance is off or words are twisted (intentionally or unintentionally) confusion and distortion in thinking take place. This is a really well-written post and thanks for speaking out against this error!

  • http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

    I’m glad I live in a time and a country where my wife and daughters can vote, can own property, can seek as much education as they desire and circumstances allow, can hold any office, can pursue any career, are treated as credible witnesses (and generally taken seriously) by our judicial system. I’m glad of that and more.

    Yep. Looking through my list, I’m definitely a feminist.

  • Leanne

    I took a course called women in church and society. It was noted that throughout history many religions which wanted to stand out from the culture have often displayed their distinctiveness through the role and dress of women. Unfortunately, I believe the Church has done this also through poor exegesis of Scriptures about women. We don’t bother to look at the overall narrative. God is restoring Creation to wholeness which was seen in Eden. Man and woman were created to reflect the image of God together as partners. God pours out his spirit on all people according to Joel. And there is no male or female in Christ. God’s grace is to shine through us equally. God in Christ has restored the partnership, not the curse of man lording over woman and woman longing in vain for man.
    I pray your daughter can hear the grace of God in the midst of the shouting patriarchal noise.

  • Margaret

    I know I’m sometimes an annoying fundy on here, but I’m with you on this one.

    I do have a problem with radical feminism. I also have a problem with egalitarianism as a “movement” because my experience with egalitarians has been that the ones I knew leaned towards not just mutual love, service and submission but deliberately upending and tossing out Biblical principles of marriage.

    That said, I’m raising boys. If they *ever* abuse a woman in any way, I will be too ashamed to call them my sons. They are 7 and under and we are talking *now* about their obligations as young men to respect, honor, serve, and love the women in their life. They do not have the “right” to be served and coddled by women. They have an obligation to serve and participate in the family. Obviously no wives as of yet, but they can practice…on mama, on aunts, and friends who are girls.

    This is one of the areas that makes it difficult to fit in with people who we agree with theologically and socially. We believe that husband-love/wife-submit is a Biblical principle but it is *not* the extent of Biblical principles of marriage. Furthermore, cultural ideas of “manliness” are not necessarily Biblical manhood. And there absolutely is no Biblical foundation for The Rights of the Macho Man. And IMO, the wife-submit part is a horse that’s been beaten to death. Moderates (Family Life, and FOTF) understand that and have been emphasizing men’s obligations to be loving, self sacrificial servants, and while they have their ideals, they also understand that reality means we can’t all live those ideals all the time. But those on the extreme are becoming annoying to me. They’ll say “submit in EVERYTHING” but won’t come straight out and admit that legalistically insisting on that means a woman might have to submit to abuse or commit a sin. The most I’ve gotten from them is “Well, if you pray, God will protect you from that”.

    If that is the perspective you were raised with, I can understand your bitterness against it. I hope you will find healing in the Catholic doctrines on marriage. The rest of my family being Catholic, I have had the opportunity to learn about it and I must say it is beautiful. :)

  • anonymous

    Thank you for sharing this. I too have felt the pressure of having to live up to an impossible standard. It was a huge battle for me in the first year of marriage, with my husband continually saying, “I don’t expect you to be the perfect wife.” (He finally banned me from reading books about marriage because I got too caught up in what I “should” be doing.)

    I’m learning more and more to give myself grace and to focus on the most important thing, which is to love God and let HIM love on ME, too. Learning his true character takes away a lot of that guilt for not being/doing what I should.

  • http://www.faithlikemustard.wordpress.com Megan @ Faith Like Mustard

    Sentence fragment people crack me up. They’ll cling to one thing and throw the baby out with the bathwater (so to speak). I have yet to see any silent women (1 Corinthians 14:34) with their heads covered and/or hair cut off (1 Corinthians 11:6) at church on Sunday morning.

    Context. It’s all about context.

    As for Ephesians 5….I’m all for it. My husband does love his wife “like Christ loved the church.” I don’t doubt for a minute that he wouldn’t lay down his life for me (that’s what Jesus did). So, I’m willing to submit to him. Funny thing is, I don’t ever have to. Because of the kind of love he has for me, there is no dictatorship; we are a partnership. However, I do understand how people might be twist the scripture into something it is not in order to line up with their own personal desires.

    I’d also like to point out that Jesus reached out to women when it wasn’t cool. In fact, Christianity is the only religion in the world that gives women a place of value and honor. So, while you won’t ever hear me say that JC was a feminist, He was the Great Equalizer! :)

  • http://www.mcmanuspartyoffive.blogspot.com Talysa

    I personally feel that God intended for me to follow the instruction of my husbands leading…that’s just what I walk away from when I read scripture without trying to twist it for my liking. BUT I also think he intended husbands to lead…in EVERY way…with a sacrificial kind of love. Not just the way that benefits his selfish nature.

    I think if husbands were reading (and writing!) books on “how to love your wife as Christ does” and making themselves successful at it, submission would be a glad response. And a safe one. Jesus would never put his needs before mine. He didn’t while hanging on the cross at least. So I’m left to believe that if my husband is called to love me like Christ loved the church, he would always think of my well being before his own. The “church” fails men and women both in this area. Complete imbalance. No call to men to “man up!” and be the SPIRITUAL leader…taking on the mind of Christ and seeking God’s wisdom in every decision…not just leaders (dictators). No cycle like the Bible suggests. Husbands will love, wives will be compelled to follow because of that love. Just one sided acrobatic instruction for women.

    I’ve read the Pearl book and although I did walk away with a reminder to be more joyful towards my husband (God can speak even through a ridiculous source if He needs to), I was sickened when I read the part about how to handle abuse if your husband had abused your child. Basically don’t tell?!?! Seriously?!?!

  • L a u r a

    May the truth be revealed and the pendulum come to rest!

  • Maggie Dee

    There’s nothing so irrational as a person who believes they’ve inherited their opinion directly from God.

    Truer words have never been spoken Elizabeth. And in fact, I think that’s what the Bible is talking about when it says, “Don’t take God’s name in vain.” I’ll keep telling my 11 year old daughter until I’m blue in the face that just because his butt warms a pew doesn’t mean he’s speaks for God, is a Christian, or even someone you would want to drink coffee with after service. God gave us a brain and intuition. It’s up to us to use it.

    Oh, and if she ever finds herself mixed up with some “patriarch”, I’ve got her back 110%.

  • http://whitewashedfeminist.wordpress.com Cally Tyrol

    Hahahaha…. so did we.

  • http://arewomenhuman.wordpress.com Grace

    @Jamie – you might want to know that John Piper’s views on women’s obligations in marriage are pretty extreme and not woman-friendly.

    And re: Elisabeth Elliot, it bothers me to hear qualities described as categorically “feminine.” I’m not a “receiving” person. Does that make me not feminine? No. Being a woman makes me feminine. Period.

    Personally, all this nonsense about biblical womanhood and female submission played a huge role in my not being a Christian today. Just a warning to people who want to raise Christian kids. This stuff will drive some kids away, inevitably.

  • http://www.stretchmarkmama.com Stretch Mark Mama

    Personally, I’m working through the verses on Delilah and modeling my life after her. :D

  • http://www.ayoungmomsmusings.blogspot.com Young Mom

    I know what you mean. I can’t handle the “God-given gender roles” crap. I am so afraid that religion = fundamentalism that sometimes its hard for me to keep interested in christianity at all. And your post doesn’t even hit on the pressure that some men feel in the “gender roles”. Although the world has opened up a bit to the possiblity of women having more to them then merely being the servents of men, the male code is still as ridgid as ever. To seem anything but “masculine” in appearance or interests is only inviting homophobia and attack. The whole thing makes me sick to my stomache. The best I can do right now is to shoot for Godly “personhood” and ditch the gender roles entirely.

  • http://www.relapsed-catholic.blogspot.com Tara Meghan

    Oh wow, yes. EXACTLY. I always want to throw in a sentence fragment of my own…”they shall be as the angels in heaven.”

    It seems to me that our Christian duty has no gender qualifications. Dying-to-self and bearing our Crosses gracefully and with love…well, it comes from wanting to be closer to God, not wanting to be perfect accessories for our family. And it is not confined by gender. Focusing on gender roles is putting the cart before the horse!

    As women, when we are in a close relationship with God, picking up that Cross everyday, maybe it will become apparent that we ought to be doing all those Sirach 26 and Proverbs 31 things. Maybe. But most surely not all of us, because the world is big, with many types of people, and many individual circumstances. The Bible says a LOT of things, and only a few of those, elevated without reason above all the others, seem to turn womanhood into a one-size-fits-all condition.

    It’s unconscionable to hold that standard up as the only acceptable model. Personally, I *want* to live out that life, but I’m still so far away from doing it successfully, that my life would be a cesspool of frustrated, guilty, washed-out depression if I felt I were a bad woman for not being there yet. And not everybody wants to live that life. Some people are meant to be ballerinas!

  • Nina

    Oh, my dear Elizabeth, me too: I have one of those dancers.

    http://new.music.yahoo.com/lee-ann-womack/videos/view/i-hope-you-dance–2152420

    Watch this and think of me!

  • also anonymous

    EE-would love to hear more thoughts on this one-you are spot on (and humorously so)!!! Young Mom, I love it-”…shoot for Godly ‘personhood’”!!!!!!

    Jamie, at first glance-not thorough reading, several years ago, I thought Biblical Womanhood (by Piper and Grudem) was good stuff. (I hate to admit it.) Then I married, experienced the reality of their theories and re-examined their writings in detail and from experience and consider it dangerous stuff.

    I have now read tons of books(as well as blogs, articles, etc.) on both sides of the issue. If I could only buy two books on the topic-they would be the following, in order of priority. Aida Besancon Spencer and her husband, William, have several books out, one of the best being Beyond the Curse: Women Called to Ministry, and second, Marriage at the Crossroads. The first book addresses ministry and marriage. The second looks at marriage from their egalitarian view and includes the view of a soft-comp couple. The Spencers’ books are the best I have read on the egalitarian issue. I love the way they have worked out the practical issues. Theirs is the marriage I wish I had. Theirs are the books I wish I had earlier in my life-before I made serious decisions.

    Roles ought to be based on gifting, not gender. Try as I might, I cannot see that the bible is meant to be pink and blue, that the fruit of the spirit and the ‘love chapter’ in Corinthians have any gender distinctions at all.

  • also anonymous

    “Since when did Christians embrace Biblical interpretation that catered to human instinct instead of restraining it?” EE, love this point! We have to be so careful of the lenses we choose through which to view anything.

  • http://www.slogrownorganics.com Lara

    All this stuff is so confusing to me. I get the concepts on both sides of the argument, but I have no idea what it’s supposed to look like in my life. In my marriage. In my family. When are we supposed to lay our lives down like Jesus did and when are we supposed to stand up for ourselves? I want to be like Jesus, but I don’t want to lay my life down then end up depressed, angry and mean. Jesus wasn’t those things. And it seems like so often for me to be happy then my husband has to be over burdened, or my kids. That isn’t right. Who should carry the excess when we don’t live in a village situation anymore? The rich can pay for pre-school and babysitters and dinners out, but what about the poor? None of this makes sense in a real life context to me.

    • http://reidklos.com reid klos

      Lara,
      a friend and I were just speaking about that the other day – real life applications. We were discussing divorce actually, but I made the comment that as of late, I’ve been saying to God: “Lord, these verses are nice and all, but what do they mean for me?” Someone mentioned earlier in the comments about people being different and that’s what it boils down to. We have to be sure we are engaging with God and trusting His leading. He said that the Holy Spirit would guide us and lead us into all truth. Even when we get counsel from “spirit-filled” people, their advice still needs to be filtered through God.

      I’m finding that what He wants is for me to come to Him to get the full picture of His word. We have no need that any man, or woman, should tell us anything because God has promised us the gift of His spirit, His tender watchcare. He even says to come to Him so that we can reason together.

      There is a bit of sacrifice on everyone’s part, that’s just what Christianity is about. Here’s the thing Lara, God promised us to give us the desires of our hearts if we follow Him. He also promised that if we seek His kingdom and His righteousness that “all these things” will be added to us. For me that means that though it seems I’m giving up some things that I feel will make me happy in order to do something for someone else, if that is what I truly believe God is asking me to do then i can trust that He’s got my back.

      It’s all a very unnerving, sometimes downright scary dance, but that is what true faith is all about. Do we trust that God is God? And He will continue to allow situations in our lives that cause us to ask that question. It’s not a one time oh-i-got-faith-so-i-am-a-mega-Christian, it’s a moment by moment, day by day ordeal, which is why Christ pointedly told us to count the cost of following Him.

    • http://reidklos.com reid klos

      Oh and Lara I forgot to say that if the Preachers that are paid tithe and offering were focused on an overall spirituality, really teaching us about community and Christian graces the church “family” would live in a village situation, and though you may still have a little pressure on you, most would be relieved by fellow believers.

      I have a number of family and friends in situations like yours. As a single man I pray and try to help them out as best I can. Almost nothing frustrates me more than to know that while we are busting our butts to make a dollar and petitioning God’s throne for favor and financial blessings, the preachers are sitting at home reviewing their savings accounts statements and planning their next church funded sabbatical. That’s why I wrote this post: http://reidklos.com/off-the-cuff/mr-preacher-youre-fired/

      Even now as I think about your frustration I’m getting heated. I’m also saddened. Just remember that His eye is on the sparrow so He watches you. He is always there, Lara. I’m praying that He’ll give you clarity on how His word should be applied in your life.

  • also anonymous

    Janet, it is sad to see the Patriarch mindset creeping into places hitherto untouched by its bondage and teaching. I am finding that, too, as I try to find a church. I am mostly unsuccessful as even the ‘egalitarian churches’ still seem to have the classes about ‘women’s roles’ and ‘men’s roles’ which is the slippery slope into the limitation of women. Certain well-known women have been hugely successful in selling their women’s bible studies which also support/lead into the idea of limited roles for women.

    I, too, spend many Sundays in parks or elsewhere while the rest of my ‘family’ are in their respective comp churches.

  • Whitney

    I consider myself a complementarian in theory, but a egalitarian in practice. Odd, I know, but I do believe there is some value in “roles,” but I think they should be loosely defined and certainly not preached about most of a person’s life. I was thinking one sermon would be enough. :-) A woman is free to work outside the home, for example, but often it is a good thing for her to be at home. I’m aiming for a mix myself!

    That being said, I like things to be equal mostly at home. I have a brain, I use it, and my husband respects that. We make decisions together. There are some things that I don’t really make decisions on because they’re not “my thing,” and he decides on. And vice versa. Of course, there are times we conflict on a decision and I try to see where he’s coming from. Often, it’s closer to my side than I originally thought. Thankfully, DH isn’t overbearing. Just yesterday, we disagreed on a key political subject and it was no big deal.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/erikaerin Erika

    The publicly visible women that are espousing this all have financial gain in mind.

  • http://www.emergingmummy.com Sarah@EmergingMummy

    Sometimes I think that freedom scares the crap out of people. So they make a new law. That is all that this is to me – a new law, new bondage, new rules. And Christ came to set us free.

    • http://reidklos.com reid klos

      You are going to make me shout up in this comment section, Sarah. I feel it coming on!

      That’s exactly what’s going on. And as Erika commented, financial gain is in mind.

      We are steadily moving into a religious world that mirrors that of the New Testament when Jesus came the first time. I often think that when He comes the second time we will look just like the Jews, Pharisees and Sadducees – oppresing people with religious rules & stupidity in order to make a buck!

  • Whitney

    When people talk about the “good” girls in the Bible, they never mention Jael (the one who drove the stake though the enemy’s head!).

    Maybe I should name a daughter Jael. Who’s with me?

  • http://www.sugartails-glowingirl.blogspot.com GlowinGirl

    The beauty of marriage is mutual submission. The beauty of the husband being the head of the household is order. But the head loves the body and is joined to it so there is agreement in what they are doing . . . there should be unity of purpose.

    There is balance in all things. I can’t read a Pearl book without feeling sick, but I also dislike the bashing men take from hardcore feminists. As a woman, I tend to get defensive when I hear about “submission” and the leadership of men, until I am reminded that it only works if it’s in one context: LOVE. Otherwise it does fail and is called domination and abuse.

    Your beautiful daughter can dance and be single to God’s glory; can dance and be married to God’s glory. The beauty of love in marriage is that we sacrifice for each other to help one another to accomplish dreams. The beauty of love is when your husband looks at you and says, “I want to know what you dream about. I want to make it happen. You’ve spent years by my side making mine come true. It’s long past your time,” as mine said to me this summer. Because I’ve gladly helped him achieve some of his. Not as a doormat, but as one working by his side.

  • Mark S.

    EE, well written and all the posters: well done.

    As a married guy here trying to follow Christ as a Catholic and married to a Catholic, we have always viewed marriage as 100%/100%. It’s because that is how we two people see our roles as man and woman, as individuals, as people, as members of the Church and as members of society. In Biblical times, and I mean no offense, women were NOT considered equal to men, they were subordinate. The wife owed her entire existence to her husband.

    The Bible is God’s inspired word WRITTEN AT A PARTICULAR TIME using REAL PEOPLE who were not robotic writers but rather living persons who were products of their cultural norms. The truths are in there for all to see: marriage is the sacred dance between two persons that imperfectly mirrors the perfect dance of the Trinity. The whole truth is complete love, so complete we can’t grasp it here on this side of heaven. The rest of it, Biblical Womanhood/Manhood, just makes me shake my head. Thanks for letting me rant! :-)

  • anonymous

    Single moms can and do have orderly households without the presence of husbands to lead. They have no other options. Therefore, husbands leading can’t be requisite to household order.

    I think if love is truly present in both marriage partners then leadership based on one’s gender isn’t needed. Why would it be? If love isn’t truly present then leadership by example only-not someone making the final decisions, etc.-is the only ‘leadership’ that would truly work. It really isn’t leadership, then. It is simply example-a beautifully nonthreatening posture.

  • Mark S.

    Whitney…cool! One who IS mentioned is Judith, who bravely cut off Holofernes head. Now THERE was a woman!

  • Tara Meghan

    Oh man, have I ever been there.

    It sounds so hokey and starry-eyed, but for me the first step was totally not practical or division-of-labour based at all. I was struggling, so I just started trying to lean on God more, and to feel like he was all I wanted. That if I could be closer to God, nothing would bug me. That my family was great and all, but I couldn’t do right by them if I focused only on THEM and THEIR needs. It had to be about getting closer to Jesus, and then the strength to care for my family and to find the right balance would come from that.

    I’m Catholic, so I did Confession and received the Eucharist more often, which helped a lot. And praying. And reading. And (more hokey-ness) thinking about the Cross. Like, a lot. All the time. And looking to the saints and the Holy Family as role models and a support system. It was like putting the horse before the cart, for the first time in my life. The practical aspects of life started to make a lot more sense!

    I’ve been finding it’s easier to give, because there’s always more in my emotional reserve now. But I’m still not perfect. I couldn’t give and give and never get back, or carry the whole family on my back, like we are so often expected to do. What is REALLY great is the sense of perspective. I can calmly say, “Look, this is too much, I can’t get it all done. I need more help, and to get out of the house more often,” because I know that I am doing my best for the family, and I deserve to be allowed to take some care of myself as well.

    Still not perfect. Still don’t have it all figured out. Like, this week, my anxiety is through the roof because I forgot to take any care of myself this past month, and have been sick for two weeks. But I know it will be okay, because I *will* put in the effort to renew myself, and I know God will help.

  • Margaret

    Funny: I actually know someone who *is* very conservative in this reagard, but not nuts, and she and her husband did name one of their daughter’s Jael. I believe she is the first Jael I’ve ever known, too.

  • anonymous

    :) That’s a hoot!

  • http://arewomenhuman.wordpress.com Grace

    GlowinGirl, re this: The beauty of the husband being the head of the household is order.

    Why does there need to be a “head” or a designated leader to be order? I reject the assumption I’ve so often heard that “someone has to lead.” It’s not true. It’s perfectly possible for partners who are full equals and take up roles based on their individual personalities and strengths (not their anatomy or gender) to run a household well.

    I’m a hardcore feminist. I don’t bash men. I love men! What I don’t love is patriarchy. That pretty much sucks.

  • Michael

    Hi, Elizabeth;

    I am Eastern Orthodox, but I think the teachings of the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics are similar on this particular issue. At any rate, we share many saints in common. One of these is St. John Chrysostom. His commentary on Ephesians 5 is below. This is the balanced teaching of the Church, over and against the goofy teachings of unbalanced sectarians:

    http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf113.iii.iv.xxi.html

    It is no use trying to fight either radical feminism or sectarian distortions by “proof texting.” All Scripture must be understood within the context of the Church.

  • Clare

    Grace, I’m a practicing, orthodox Catholic, and I completely agree with this post. I think too often people conflate cultural assumptions about gender roles with what the Church actually teaches, or what can be discovered by an sane reading of scripture.

  • Robyn

    Oh! Oh! You have GOT to read Milieris Dignitatem! http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html Check out especially Section 10, “He shall rule over you.” John Paul the Great explains that this is due to “the disturbance of that original relationship between man and woman.” It’s “a break and a constant threat precisely in regard to this ‘unity of the two’,” i.e. man and woman. In other words, God DIDN’T create us this way. Instead, it’s one of the tragic consequences of sin.

    The reality is that we live in a fallen world, thus St. Paul exhorts wives to be subject to their husbands in everything as the Church is subject to Christ. You’re so right to zero in on the concern about the sentence fragment. The whole sentence makes it clear that this behavior is only for when the husband is being Christ-like.

  • Jessica

    I’m new to your blog – been stalking for awhile and there is so much that can be said on this issue but I just have to comment on this.

    hands down the best paragraph/sentence:

    These books and blogs often assert that a woman’s highest calling is to become a wife and a stay-at-home mother. Why? Because she was born with a uterus, of course.

    Regardless of agreeing or disagreeing you are a crafty writer who makes me smile, think, and think some more.

  • http://hopefulleigh.blogspot.com/ Leigh

    Biblical Womanhood should not be within the context of marriage and motherhood. Otherwise, a ton of women will be left out, myself included. The fundamentalist interpretation is not Biblical Womanhood either. This is something that drastically needs to be studied and reinterpreted before any more women are abused and marginalized.

    Incidentally, you might find Rachel Held Evans’ latest project interesting if you’re not already aware of it. http://rachelheldevans.com/womanhood-project

  • http://www.rebecca-feelmylove.blogspot.com Rebecca

    Yes, there is a biblical command for a woman to submit to her husband, right after that one that says for husbands to submit to their wives (or love their wives as Christ loves the church and as they love their own bodies). Yep, it’s about submitting to each other.

    You described it beautifully in your second paragraph.

    I often say that my husband and I do not submit to each other but rather to our marriage. It is not him or me that comes first, it is US.

    Love what you had to say!

  • http://www.sugartails-glowingirl.blogspot.com GlowinGirl

    It’s true that not all feminists are men-bashers. I didn’t mean to lump them together, and I apologize. It is also true that not all who believe in Ephesians 5:22 are the Pearls. :) I agree with you that in a good marriage there is partnership and complementary roles based on strengthsa and weaknesses. . . . but I still firmly believe that the Bible meant for the husband to be the head of the household. I don’t believe that it means women are to be silent partners or that they are inferior. And obviously, as some have mentioned, single women can still have an orderly household, including single moms and be beautiful women of Christ. It applies to when there is a marriage.

    There isn’t enough space to explain how I believe that looks, but it’s not degrading. I’m a strong woman, but there have been times in my marriage when I have disagreed with an important decision my husband has decided to make, and I’ve decided to just let him lead in the matter. It’s a decision to trust the Lord. My husband realizes he’s respected, and our marriage is stronger for it. And when he’s wrong . . . he’s wrong. But because he is a godly man, I can trust him to do things for our benefit. If he were abusive or unfaithful or doing something else morally wrong, I wouldn’t submit. I don’t believe God asks that of any women.

    I know we may disagree in this, and I’m okay with that, but I hope that explains a little better! :)

  • Laura

    So who is to submit first?

  • Laura LeBron

    Elizabeth,

    I have been struggling with the idea of submission for years. I found that in my struggle that what I really have is a problem with my relationship with Christ. I did not even know what a relationship with Christ was supposed to be like. Yah, I know what everyone say it is suppose to be but it is quite different when you are trying to replicate or experience what someone else is telling you. In my struggles I found that what I had was a lack of TRUST. I did not trust Christ, and so I did not trust my husband. (they are closely linked) As soon as I discovered this in myself I made a firm decision to trust my husband in an effort to understand what my relationship with Christ should be. And the door that has been opened for me… WOW. This is what submission means to me, trust. So take the word submission and replace it with trust and see if that does not change how you look at it. Please note though, I have chosen to trust my husband even though there will be times that he will fail me. Your husband was created in the image of God but is stained by sin so cannot be perfect, do not expect him to be.

    I have been trusting my husband for about 2 years now and I have found that I have become very sensitive to how other women treat their husbands, even my own Mother. :)

    I want to give you a few examples from my life in trusting:

    My husband wanted to bring me home food and called to ask what I would like but did not know where he was going to get the food from, he wanted direction from me, I told him that he knows me and I trust him to bring me something I like. I did…

    When we go shopping for clothes for me I go stand in the dressing room and he brings me stuff to try on (I know what you are thinking but this is really fun). I have lots of items in my wardrobe that I would have never picked out but look great on me. I want to note this is not the only way I get clothing (I do go shopping by myself); this is just the way we shop when we do it together.

    I let him clean (insert chore here) however he sees fit, it may not be up to my standard but I am more happy that is it done (and mostly clean) and that he is taking an interest (on how clean or not clean the house is) than the alternative which is me cleaning everything and him on the couch watching TV.

    I have a Christian female friend (married with 4 kids) that is conflicted about where they should live, she cannot trust her husband to make this decision for the family but she cannot make up her mind either. My heart hurts for her loss. She DOES NOT TRUST HER HUSBAND to have her and their children best interest at heart and because she cannot make up her own mind she is very troubled.

    My Mother does not trust my Father to get to his appointments on time. This to me is insanity (of all the things to worry about); he is a GROWN MAN…

    One time at work I was asked if I had “trained” my husband to do a particular chore or not. I responded that my husband is not a boy but a grown man and does not need “training”. What is funny is the reverse is never asked. “Has your husband trained you to change the oil?” You know what kind of response would follow that question.

    One last thing Elizabeth, there is a book I recommend that goes to great length to explain gender roles historically in the United States from a Christian world view. It is called “Total Truth” by Nancy Pearcey. I think you will find it interesting.

    I read you post every day and I love getting insight to your life.

    Laura,

  • http://milehimama.com Milehimama

    The Duggars are heavily involved in Gothardism and tied up in Vision Forum, now.

    I’m glad to be a Catholic- which celebrates women with major feasts (Aug. 15, Dec. 8) and celebrates women of all kinds (childless, single, mothers…) throughout the year

    I wonder what Doug Philips thinks about St. Joan of Arc?

  • http://remnantofremnant.blogspot.com priest’s wife

    no matter what- both women and men are equal in dignity- that can’t be overstated.

  • frogla

    As a friend of mine recently noted, the popular book “Created to Be His Helpmeet” by Debi Pearl reads like a manual for how-to-be an abused woman.

    my dh was brought up in this maddening cultic movement and it has absolutely disabled his will and person-hood. why are woman subject to this abuse & why are women mostly leading it? it is spiritual abuse!!

  • frogla

    why are women subject to this cultic abuse? why are women mostly leading it? my dh is a victim of this spiritual abuse and it maddening to see how tight fisted the devotees hold on to their precious doctrine.

    As a friend of mine recently noted, the popular book “Created to Be His Helpmeet” by Debi Pearl reads like a manual for how-to-be an abused woman.

    I had a friend who bought a bunch of these books to disciple with. I looked through the book and was like uh NO this is wrong!

  • http://www.americannaussie.blogspot.com Katy-Anne

    Laura, some women can’t trust their husbands to get to appointments on time because their husband has never yet gotten to a single appointment on time. Some women can’t trust their husbands with where to live because they know their husbands are selfish, thinking ONLY of themselves and what they “feel” at any given time. Men are NOT perfect.

    I have been told many, many times “wow, your husband sure has trained you well”. It’s insulting either way.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/elizabethesther Elizabeth Esther

    Hi Laura: I have to say that your comment really troubles me and demonstrates precisely the kind of thinking I’m trying to refute, here.

    You wrote: “I did not trust Christ, so I did not trust my husband (they are closely linked).”

    You are conflating your relationship to God with relationship to your husband. The problem is, God is God and your husband is not. Equating those two things not only diminishes God’s rightful place, but it elevates your husband inappropriately.

    To me, that doesn’t sound like “trust.” That sounds like idolatry.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/elizabethesther Elizabeth Esther

    Rachel’s project did, in fact, inspire my thoughts on this topic!

  • http://www.sustainablemommy.wordpress.com Naomi

    Hello to another ex-Menno, Janet! Wishing you well on your journey.

  • Sarah

    chlortrimeton…. I was the girl who couldn’t play on the grass at recess and got allergy shots once a week. Chlortrimeton saved me when Clariten wouldn’t touch my symptoms. :-) Oveer the counter. Little yellow pills. AWESOME.

  • http://www.minthegap.com MInTheGap

    I find the contrast between this post and Should She Obey Him? to be interesting.

  • anonymous

    And notice that the one woman with a seriously good question on the linked article (Should She Obey Him?) doesn’t get a response.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/elizabethesther Elizabeth Esther

    Interesting, how?

  • Rachel Maes

    love it! beautiful, and true.

  • http://www.minthegap.com MInTheGap

    I’m guessing that you’re referring to the woman that said that she was picking out movies that were trash because her husband had a different opinion on movie styles than she did, and then she asked what Stacey thought about it.

    To answer your question directly, getting replies on blog comments can be a tricky thing, and you shouldn’t imply anything to the fact that someone does or does not reply to a comment. People will skip the comment section entirely to comment on a long post, authors are working on future posts and don’t care to do more than a cursory glance at comments (or plan to answer comments later– this is notoriously my problem!).

    But to answer her question, I believe that the original post talks about “Sinning Husbands” and that they need to be confronted. Furthermore, in the section on Accountability in said topic, the author states that there are circumstances where, since the husband is asking her to do something that’s sin, she must refuse.

    So, the answer to the woman’s question is obvious from the post. If she believes it’s sin and that her husband is in sin, she should confront and not participate in his sin.

  • http://www.minthegap.com MInTheGap

    Mostly approach. I think both of you tend to agree (at least, I think so– I’d like to hear your take on whether you think that the author is wrong or not) on this subject, and yet when I read your post I get nothing but defenses up as far as you’re making personal and veiled attacks, but I get from her the facts.

    I think that’s partially from your experience and the manipulation, for I think that you are right to defend the fact that married couples need to “be one”, but at the same time I also know that in many marriages the problem is not that either party has a problem being independent, but that there are power struggles.

    I would also go so far as to guess that there’s a lot of give and take in your home, and that you, as a couple, have learned the balance that some of these homes do not have.

    In any case, it’s wrong for husbands to lord over the wives as much as it is for wives to disrespect their husbands– and there’s too much of both going on.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/elizabethesther Elizabeth Esther

    I see. So, this post is me making “personal and veiled attacks” that post is “just the facts.” That IS an interesting perspective. If only I’d backed up my “experience” with Bible verses maybe I, too, could have sounded more “factual” and less “defensive.” I’ll keep that in mind for future reference.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/elizabethesther Elizabeth Esther

    and actually, I disagree with some of that post, but I’m not going to address it here because I’m guessing you’d dismiss what I said based on my experience disqualifying me from having a “factual” perspective.

  • http://thehomespunlife.com Sisterlisa

    When my husband talks to people about how we came out of fundy-ism he says he’s a recovering *Nazi “insert denomination here”*. Where women are to subject into positions of practically slavery. Their talk of ‘take her out for dinner once a week’ is to keep her ‘silent in the church’ about how she really feels and how the husband really treats her. The preacher even said once that ‘no matter how wrong the husband is, obey him and God will deal with him’. While several husband’s in the church were having affairs and watching p*rn. They conveniently forget the passage ‘neither male nor female..all are equal in Christ’ and the fact that there was a female apostle named Junia and ‘Priscilla taught Apollos the way of Christ more perfectly’. Not sure how they functioned in their gifts in silence. ;O)

    I could go on and on about this one.

  • Ellie

    I think a good solid study on the life of Abigail would be interesting for these women to do.

    Abigail acted in direct contradiction to what her husband had wished. Her husband said no, and she went behind his back and said yes. God did not judge her, but complimented her. The servants went to her because they knew she was wise and would listen. She averted a massacre. She confronted a man who would be king on the folly if his actions, too.

    Abigail was commended by God. And what she did would not be considered blind submission.

  • http://www.ccada.org Kate Johnson

    Jenelle, in the Greek, there is no chapter division (that is MAN made). In actuality, there is not even a division in the sentence. As a matter of fact, the word submission in v 22 is dependent on the verb in 21, so it should read, “Submit one to another out of reverence for Christ and wives to your husbands.” Now, doesn’t THAT put a different slant on things?

  • Anon

    A while ago through Evangel (http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel) I found an amazing article (http://www.cbe.org.au/media/docs/SubmitinEverythingTJ.pdf) by Steven Tracey, the soft complementarian co-author of the book Marriage at the Crossroads referenced above. As I read through it, I realized that this was what I thought all the complementarian speakers I’ve heard were talking about – for most of them I like to think it actually was. This idea of a submission modified by Scripture’s commands and focusing on the man’s duty to sacrificially serve was what I’d seen in all the marriages I respected and what my own was forming into. Most of all, the ideas he presented cover the range of Scripture in pulling together a guide, seeking to be faithful to it all. In fact, Abigail was discussed in the article, as referenced above.

    For a moderate voice, I’d suggest the Traceys. Perhaps tellingly (I haven’t decided yet), it was CBE and not CBMW that posted the article.

    The person suggesting that the women up front leading the charge are making money off of the endeavor is not alone in her suspicion. It’s been talked about before (http://www.grace-fullliving.com/2009/01/marketing-of-titus-2-woman-part-1.html), and I think it is telling to look at who benefits from all the shrill cries.

  • Johna

    Holy crap! Why have I never found your blog before now? You just echoed everything I’ve been thinking for the last 6 months, almost verbatim!!!

  • Kimberly

    “Most troubling about this trend is that it’s being led by women. Women are the authors of these books and blogs, women are the speakers at church retreats.”

    I get the feeling from this comment (and some others) that you are surprised that (some) women actually want, desire, crave, whathaveyou, this type of relationship with their husbands. I understand that the majority of modern-day feminists say they only desire that women should have the choice to live how they like, but then you balk at the prospect of a woman who would actively choose this destiny for herself? Simone de Bouvier has been quoted as saying that women shouldn’t be allowed to choose to be stay-at-home-mothers because too many of them would…its as if feminists would rather believe that A. being a SAHM can only be akin to total slavery, and completely unfulfilling in any capacity, and B. women (who are smart enough to make their own decisions, right?) have been brain-washed into preferring it, than accept the fact that we HAVE the choice, we’ve always HAD the choice, and that some of us prefer to defer to a man we have found worthy of the honor. Why would you marry a many whom you didn’t feel comfortable deferring to in this manner anyway??

    I just wanted to state for the record that I live in this type of relationship, and I’m choosing this lifestyle for myself. I’ve never been brainwashed, I’m not stupid, I’m not insane, and I have evidence that this is the BEST outcome for my family. I’ve never once been influenced to attempt to change legislature to force other women into this type of arrangement against their will, any more than my being a Christian forces them to be one as well. The only argument you could possibly have against this movement is that it might influence other women to seek similar lifestyles, because like it or not, these women are there by choice. If you remove that as an option, then you really have NO choice. And unless you’re willing to state that women in general are too weak or too stupid to resist this threat to their own well-being (a theory that feminists claim society inflicted upon them in the 60′s, remember?) you must concede that this for some women is what they want, and therefore acceptable….at least as acceptable as a woman who wants and is able to obtain a day job. You must concede that this belief-system is not a dangerous threat to the rights and safety of all women, but simply one logical option in the menagerie of choices that women now have for themselves.

    And finally, I’ve been in an abusive relationship. The abuse part occurred when he inflicted pain and suffering on me that was grossly inappropriate in scale and cause, and most importantly was inflicted upon me against my will (at least until I left). There is always some aspect of inconvenience in almost every part of actively caring for people you love and live with. The “suffering” caused by my choice to bring my husband something cold, or to ask his opinion before spending large amounts of money, or for relying on his paycheck alone (aka the “extreme” helpmeet lifestyle of which you’ve posted) is literally JOYFUL compared to the chaos and cruelty with which I was treated before. The term “abuse” when applied to a man like my husband for his beliefs is just baffling to me. Furthermore, without sounding snarky (because I’m not judging, I’m just expressing my personal experience so that its represented, I hope you guys understand that) I would like to point out there there is no evidence that this type of lifestyle breeds violent or abusive relationships any more than an egalitarian relationship does. I think that kind of claim undermines the seriousness of truly abusive relationships and the women who suffer through them. That’s just my opinion. My husband considers his position of authority, which I agreed to in much the same way that we agree that our President is our leader, a stewardship, and administers his authority with love and deference to us. His purpose is to serve his family as much as mine is to serve him (and my family). I also think it is unfair to assume that these men (or any men) would automatically abuse any power afforded them. Furthermore, I think you’ve completely missed that many people are choosing this lifestyle because it allows them to educate their children the way they feel is best. In public schools (at least in Georgia), Christian families don’t have the option to teach their child Creationism if they wish. They aren’t even allowed to ASK about it. This is not, as many would believe, a proven theory, it is a very shaky theory with a lot of holes. To only allow an atheist belief to be taught in schools that Christian children attend is simply unacceptable, and it flies in the face of our Constitutionally-protected rights to freedom of religion. Furthermore the Bible indicates that God desires parents to personally teach their children whenever possible, and many Christians take that very seriously.

    Finally, I believe that whether or not a woman is born with a uterus, raising children IS the highest calling a woman can answer. In my book, if you put it all on paper, and weighed raising a child against any other endeavor, raising the child would always take priority. I don’t believe that every woman is called, I truly don’t, and even Paul speaks in Cor. II about those who aren’t called to fall in love, marry, and multiply, including women. I do believe that if you’ve been called to be a mother, that part of that job is raising them yourself.

    I hope everyone understands that these are simply beliefs that I hold for myself, and encourage other women to at least investigate, particularly if you’re unhappy with modern philosophy’s take on the truest and highest purpose a woman can find. I don’t ever wish to see women forced into this kind of lifestyle, but I do not agree that the simple appeal of this kind of life on bright, well-minded women qualifies as force. Thanks.