CNN investigates Mike & Debi Pearl, the Lydia Schatz spanking death and the “Biblical child-training” book “To Train Up a Child”

Posted on August 16, 2011 by elizabeth

I am so thankful CNN is investigating the spanking death of Lydia Schatz. Right after Lydia was murdered, I wrote a piece called: “How many children must die before Mike & Debi Pearl are held accountable?” I witnessed firsthand the kind of horrific abuse that so easily happens when parents use the Pearls “Biblical chastening” method. I attended meetings where their book was discussed and spanking techniques were taught. The interview with Mike & Debi Pearl is horrifyingly eye-opening. Please. If anyone at your church is passing around “To Train Up A Child,” please stand up and say no. Lydia is not the first child to die as a result of her parents using Mike & Debi Pearl’s methods. I pray she is the last. #NoMoreDeadKids

And thank you, Anderson Cooper, for sharing this story.

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  • http://bunkersdown.com Ami

    “Spare the rod and spoil the child” is probably the most tragically misunderstood scripture in the Bible. In ancient Jewish custom, their scriptures were wound up on scrolls and read right to left. These scrolls that held the word of God were also called sticks or rods. So in other words, God is saying read His word with your children. Teach them the scriptures. Not beat them senseless.
    Some people have much to answer for.

    • Thopter

      The “rods” could also be referring to the sticks used by shepherds to control their flocks. They do not viciously strike their sheep with these sticks, they use them to gently prod the sheep back onto the correct path.

    • dani

      Spare the rod and spoil the child is not in the Bible nor is it Biblical.

      • http://whynottrainachild.com Hermana Linda

        Right, it’s from Hudibras.

    • jack

      Had never heard this? What lexicon or published work did you get this understanding of ‘rod’ from?

      • http://bunkersdown.com Ami

        It was fourteen years ago in college, so I don’t have the book used, nor can I remember its name. I do remember ‘the rod’ discussion because it was such a different mindset from what I grew up with. I also remember talking about the Hebrew language and that many scholars believed the Hebrew word for rod is “shebet.” Doing some searching online, one translation I found for “shebet” is authority. I hope this helps somewhat.

  • Lori

    I really hope that someone tried to “teach them a lesson” in jail. Crazy freaks!!! Poor little child had no one on her side to protect her.

  • Gina

    Oh good, I’m glad they’re covering this!! The more attention, the better.

  • KatR

    SO glad they are covering this. I don’t know if the Pearl’s book was specifically taught at my former church. I do know that parents were taught to spank excessively, and the whole “you have to break a child’s will” theory was widespread.

  • http://www.emaconly.blogspot.com/ Emily M.

    I started crying when they got to the point where Zariah said “I might need to bring a pot, in case I throw up again.” So very heartbreaking. :(

  • Gordon Johnson

    What an awful tragedy! The parents are now where they belong. What they did was obviously not spanking (which many good parents use judiciously, sparingly, carefully and, yes, lovingly). The crime they committed was heartless torture on a child that they had the duty to protect.

    The Pearl’s deserve this spotlight, as their book goes way overboard. Nevertheless, many will use this to support the government banning corporal punishment, which I oppose on two grounds. 1) The Bible does advocate spanking (@ Ami: First, that proverb isn’t from the Bible. Second, your reconstruction of ‘rod’ is demonstrably false), and Christian parents have historically spanked their children in the correct way. No credible studies show that the loving and sparing use of corporal punishment is harmful (though plenty of agenda-driven studies, which failed to distinguish corporal punishment from examples of child abuse, have attempted to do so).

    Second, the government would have to massively overstep its bounds to enforce such a ban.

    Instead, we should throw our efforts into educating parents on good child-rearing practices (obviously not just corporal punishment) and better enforce domestic violence laws.

    • Fallaya

      There is no “correct” way to spank a child. Spanking is a form of violence (albeit a mild form, but violence nonetheless). There are plenty of other ways to discipline a child that do not involve physical force.

      • Karen

        There is no way to “lovingly” hit your child. And spanking is hitting your child.

    • TealRose

      I agree 100% with Karen and Fallaya – there is NO right or loving way to hit ANYONE much less a defenceless child.

      You cannot spank aka HIT a child [or anyone else] ‘with love’ it is an oxymoron.

      “I spanked my wife/husband and I love her” … hmm… sounds so .. WRONG doesn’t it ?? At least, I sincerely hope it does.

      “I spanked my child and I lover him/her” .. hmm… and THAT sounds ok to anyone??? Really ???

  • Lynn

    It’s just nuts that the Pearls seem so low key, and he “spanks” the reporter with a piece of weedy grass, but if you read the book, it’s cold-hearted brutality. I wish he had pulled out his favorite 1/4″ plumbing supply line for the reporter. How one can spank with that and *not* leave a mark is a mystery to me.

  • deltaflute

    So profoundly enlightening. I had heard about their methods, but to see it….wow. The part about the little girl needing to throw up again broke my heart. I gasped when she said the part about pulling a baby’s hair for biting. Baby’s don’t need much to learn how not to bite, and physical pain isn’t necessary to teach them to stop. They get upset if you simply pull them off and set them down. My kid still bites me knowingly, but I wouldn’t ever pull his hair. He just doesn’t get to nurse for a while. *shaking my head in disgust*

    Thank you so much for sharing this. I think just seeing and hearing rather than reading makes it so much more real and terrifying.

  • http://sevenlittleaustralians.blogspot.com/ Erin

    Ami
    I’ve never heard of this! is this really true? so exciting!!:) wow!

    • http://bunkersdown.com Ami

      This is what I learned when I took a class that focused on Jewish religious symbolism in college. A few times in the Old Testament there are references to ‘the stick of Judah’ which many scholars think is referring to the words of their prophets.

  • velinka

    Also incredibly toxic is their book Created To Be His Help Meet. Some years back a handful of people at church had started reading it and the book was starting to get around with a few really drawn to it. Rather quickly our pastor sent out a letter explaining and warning of many of the dangers in the book and that they could not and would not tolerate the proliferation of their material within the church.
    It grieves me deeply to watch that footage and think of those girls suffering!

    • Gina

      You have a great pastor, velinka!

      • Karen

        You have a wonderful pastor.

  • Debra

    I’m a little disappointed in this CNN coverage. They didn’t ask the Pearls about the passages that speak about not stopping until the child is submissive, and holding the child down if necessary during a spanking session if necessary. They also should have said they wanted to be ‘spanked’ by the plumbing supply line that the little girl was beaten with, the same that the Pearl’s advocate for older children. I am thankful CNN did a story, but I do wonder if they actually read the book.

  • jack

    I’d be very interested to know your sources on saying that Lydia is not the first to die related to the Pearl’s methods?

    • http://www.ericpazdziora.com Eric

      Four-year-old Sean Paddock was killed in 2006 by parents who wrapped him so tightly in a blanket that he suffocated– another method of “discipline” recommended by the Pearls. Googling his name brings up lots of sources; here’s one: http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/SeanPaddock.html

      • http://www.emaconly.blogspot.com/ Emily M.

        What amazes me about this is that they let them go through with the adoption AFTER there were allegations of abuse. Crazy!

  • Chantal

    “To break a child’s will” . As I read on a different blog, even God doesn’t break our will.

    As for the OT. I finally understand it’s place. We now live in the New covenant which fulfills the Old. Recently I realized that humanity has grown. Civilizations in the OT were brutal, they had no sense of justice, fairness and love. God plan’s is to lead humanity to live in His divine love and life. Any Christians religion wishing to live by the OT are missing the boat. There is a growth that has happened and to try to live by OT is to regress. It makes sense if you see a parallel of the growth of humanity to the growth and learning of a child. The people in the OT were like at the toddler stage. To take literally everything in the OT is only going to create problems.

    • Donna

      Why do you think that civilisations in Old Testament times had no sense of justice, fairness or love? From what I’ve read, they appear to have had exactly the same emotions and mental capabilities as we do.

  • http://mamamiamcmasters.blogspot.com/ Linda

    I can’t even imagine. Wow.
    Certainly, though, this example is not representative of all parents who spank.
    I was spanked as a kid, but not beat. And I never had marks. I’m not about to publish a book about how to spank correctly, neither am I going to publish one about why you should NEVER spank…

    • TealRose

      That is a shame because if publishing books is what you do for a living – how wonderful it would be if you could actually save children from being hit, which is what spanking is, and being disrespected by the adults who are supposed to be keeping them safe and loved. There is nothing loving about being hit…

  • http://downtoearthwomen.blogspot.com/ Tracey

    The point that was not pressed, is that the Pearls claim that the Schatzs were clearly out of control because they killed their daughter, but the fact is that while they may very well emphasize not diciplining children in “anger,” a person doesn’t have to be angry to kill someone. What the Scahtzs did to Lydia was probably not out of control at all, but very methodically, purposely and coldly applied. This was not a crime of out of control rage or anger, this was a crime of calculating and deliberate action which when metted out, was supposed to result in a compliant child. It was almost as mundane as a math problem: Proper Discipline Applied “Correctly” (ie: not in “anger”) = Desired Results of Compliance.

    Pay no attention to the fact and physics that purposeful application of any instrument by a person stronger than another, is going to result in harm regardless of the intentions of one wielding it.

  • Paul

    When I was a child I was spanked a few times and also never had any lasting marks from it. I also don’t think that I have any lasting emotional scars from it either. Though I guess you’d really have to ask my wife and my friends!

    But I have raised a nephew, now 29, and a daughter, now 10, and my wife and I made a conscious decision not to use physical punishment of any kind on them. Yes, there were times when I wanted to spank or even hit my nephew and daughter, but I always took a step back when that happened and considered what the best way was to handle the situation.

    My nephew is a happy, respected member of society and my daughter is growing up to be a happy, smart and kind person. My point is that you can raise good kids if you don’t harm them physically, so why not give it a try? It’s a lot easier to give your kid a “lick” as the Pearls suggest, and it’s harder to think of alternatives. Kids always come up with another way to push boundaries, you just need to come up with another good way to help them learn why those boundaries are needed.

    And what are you really teaching your child when you do give them a “lick”? – Simply that inflicting pain on another human is accepted in your home and that a bigger person has the right to dominate a smaller person.

    I disagree profoundly with that idea.

  • Emily

    Anyone else really freaked out by the glassy-eyed, half-smile, following-her-husband of silent Debi Pearl? *shudders* Fundies make much scarier horror films than Zombies.

  • http://www.ayoungmomsmusings.blogspot.com Young Mom

    Their jovial explanation of what constitutes trauma for so many little children is horrible to watch. They act as though the schatzes merely got out of control, but that is not true. My parents very rarely expressed any emotion while spanking, it was a cold clinical business like affair, and it still caused major damage. I’ve been posting a bit lately on disicpline and my latest post has an interesting quote on how hard society tries to defend the practice of spanking.

  • http://www.seekingfaithfulnessblog.blogspot.com Holly

    I would have liked for CNN to have brought up Michael’s cavalier and snotty response on his blog following Lydia’s death – the one where he said that he LAUGHED at all of the parents who did NOT spank their children, for their children would turn out to be criminals and imbeciles (basically.) That was a horrible, remorseless post….

    • http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

      Yes! Remember that? I wish CNN would have quoted that back to him to see his response. That post was the single most damning piece of evidence against the Pearls. I wonder if CNN even saw it?

    • Margaret

      I wish they had too.

      It was the most arrogant piece of garbage I’ve seen.

      Even if he didn’t feel in any way responsible, it was a sociopathic response to a tragedy.

  • Jess

    This story is so heartbreaking. As a mother, I can’t even comprehend how a parent could beat a child–any child–for hours. And the Pearl’s explanation of what they believe to be biblical discipline was disturbing.
    I personally do not believe that a few swift swats to reinforce an important lesson are wrong. But 10-15? Excessive. And for a minor infraction? Unneccessary and just plain wrong.
    I weep for the innocent children suffering abuse in our cities, our neighborhoods. May God have mercy on us all.

  • Laurel R

    That is incredibly sad. It made me cry, too, to see the CNN clip. I have read that book and did not feel I could use that method, but I never realized it could be taken to such an extreme. I hope the parents are as sorry as can be, not that it will ever bring their daughter back. Oh, how we all need grace.

  • Greg

    I hope no children die because you told parents to not to train your child to listen. they probly will run out in front of a car or drink some poisen and die because of you. PLEASE people do not pass this lady’s stuff around. Greg