When Sunday religion hurts you, make soup

Posted on September 4, 2011 by elizabeth

Be not afraid. God loves you and wants us to love one another as He loves us…He loves us with an infinitely faithful love. –Bl. Mother Teresa

For me, Sundays feel like land-mine days. Somedays I manage to pick my way around the bombs, other days–I am blown apart.

In the morning, we attend a Presbyterian church where I learn about God’s conditional love and how He loves me “in spite of who I am”–the actual words we were supposed to recite aloud this morning. I remained silent.

In the evening, I attend Mass where I experience God’s unconditional love, the love of an ever-pursuing God, a God who loves me with–as Mother Teresa wrote–with an “infinite faithfulness.”

In the middle of these days, I try to knit my family together through a simple ritual I have come to call “Sabbath Day of Soup.” It is my meager attempt to make peace, to be an instrument of reconciliation, to try and mend the splintered Christianity within my own family.

I serve soup and hope they can taste love in each spoonful. Did they see the fear and pain in my eyes this morning at church when we were taught (yet again) that God’s love is conditional? Do they know how this wounds me afresh every time?

How do I tell my children that I’ve been having flashbacks? It’s been awhile since I had a traumatic flashback, but my memory was triggered this past week…..

I am standing up crying in a crib. It is pitch black. I scream and scream but nobody comes. I am scared. The door opens, light from the kitchen floods in all orange. Mama picks me up. She didn’t hear me crying because she was at a prayer meeting in the building next door.

This is the one, lingering impression from my childhood: I am left behind so my parents can “serve the Lord” and/or attend meetings. I am left in the care of many babysitters–some of whom abuse me–I am left in cribs, left at summer camps, left in dark rooms to “cry it out,” I am taught that unless I live a life pleasing to God, I might get left behind at the Rapture.

And now we attend a church where we are told that God’s love is conditional. His love might leave us, too.

I don’t know how to make sense of this.

I am only just coming to the place where I scarcely dare believe in God’s unconditional love. Each Sunday, it’s as if I’m torn apart in the morning and healed up in the evening.

So, I make soup. It is my single, solitary non-violent act of defiance against authoritarian religion and the soul-scarring pain I still carry each day.

I make soup to remember nourishment, to remember peace, to remember I am worthy of love.

I ladle soup for my children and pray it shows them they are worthy of love, too.

I ladle soup and know we all carry pain. This is me trying to take my Sunday pain and make something beautiful and nourishing from it. This is me trying to make peace.

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http://jennafarelyn.blogspot.com Frelle

i am so sorry for your soul deep pain. There are always words that resonate with my own soul deep pain when I come to read you. Thank you so much for what you write. So much.

I am way too familiar with the conditional love and being loved in spite of ourselves rhetoric. I’ve just come out of that. So much healing to understand and believe in the unconditional love God has for me, that he is big enough to take my screaming and cursing at him .. he’s just happy I come to Him at all, and that I am willing to be real and show him the darkness inside that He already knows I feel. Have had to tell myself over and over that I am good enough for the God who created me. It just shouldn’t be that way.
http://redeemingthetable.com/home/2011/7/28/women-the-table.html Kamille @ Redeeming the Table

I know the pain of past still haunts you & it may seem like it will never fade; but, I know you preparing your soup, welcoming your family to your table is a reflection of heaven on Earth. Keep up with this beautiful & definitely worthwhile tradition as you find Jesus there.
liz

There is a book I think you might love – it’s called “The Fulfillment of all Desire – a journey to God through the wisdom of the saints” by Randy Martin . . . It contains wisdom from six doctors of the Church. It’s wonderful.
chick

Why did you go to a Presbyterian church, when you are Catholic?

http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

Here’s the story: http://www.elizabethesther.com/2011/06/catholic-protestant-one-roof.html

Adrian

May I say what a great soup that looks like. I can taste it. Reminds me of my mother and grandmothers soup filled with only maternity love. That being said its getting harder and harder to escape Authoritive religion. If you looking for a good book i recommend you and your family read The Misunderstood God by Darrin Hufford Hope that helps
http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

Very young childhood memories are the worst. They are just there with the emotions of someone too young to process and understand what’s happening. Peace.
brian

my greater concern is: why did you go to a presbyterian church that consistently hurts you?

i hate the thought of what you go through in there. ‘in spite of who i am’ seriously?? god intended us to cower in shame and self-loathing for the rest of our lives? that minister should be disbarred or disrobed or whatever happens to presbyterian ministers who dump shame into the open hearts and minds in front of them

i totally understand your desire to show familial solidarity. but i can’t help reacting strongly to the idea that someone should EVER choose something they know is bad for them. especially about something so personal as faith! so i’m reacting

these look discrete: http://www.amazon.com/Macks-Dreamgirl-Soft-Foam-Earplugs/dp/B001L79EPS/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1315208347&sr=1-2

Alexandrakuhl

: )
http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

pa ha ha! i LOVE the idea of ear plugs!

i go for the sake of showing love to my family. there’s really no other reason. i’ve taken breaks before but everyone misses me too much so i always end up going back. it’s very difficult for sure. but i keep wanting to show love…..i guess i need to re-examine if i’m really showing love when it causes me such pain? i don’t know.

http://www.sadiemotta.typepad.com JoAnn

just read above….he’s right Elizabeth. He’s right.
joy

I can’t help but agree with Brian–I’m not sure your family can really get much good out of this if you’re in such pain. If your husband and children need or want to attend a Protestant church, please know that there ARE many Protestant churches that do teach God’s unconditional love. And it’s also possible that anything right now other than Catholic Mass is going to trip your triggers and it’s better you don’t go. I just can’t imagine that your family needs you to suffer in quite that way.

http://mommainprogress.blogspot.com Momma in Progress

Agree on both counts . . . wonderful that you want to be there with your family, but are there other options? Lutheran and Methodist come to mind, but that’s only because that’s where my experience is. It saddens me to think some congregations are professing God only loves you if . . . (although I’m still confused as to what that condition actually IS . . . is it a specific, like if you do XYZ then you’re good, and if not then look out?) I mentioned previously that this is the way I felt in the CC about 20 years ago and why I left. But really, all of our paths are quite different, and I have also felt completely at home and at ease in the CC at another time in my life. I admire this blog so much for EE’s humble and truthful sharing. It really is one of my favorite reads.

HippieGramma

Elizabeth, is there any way you can serve in your morning church that takes you away from hearing the sermon? Serve in the nursery, teach Sunday school, take attendance, usher, do dishes, work in the bookstore, park cars… anything that allows you a legitimate reason to leave during parts that bother you or even not be present much at all?

I too, would love it if you could avoid the service altogether, but maybe this could buy you some time. I’ve been in a similar situation, and it helped me to be present for my family but not have to listen to the sermon. And when I thought about it, I was amazed how many OTHERS apparently had the same thought, because as far as I know, the bookstore lady and kitchen dude and Sunday school check in team never actually make it inside the sanctuary, yet they are upstanding members of the church… hmmm, maybe they’re on to something… ; )

http://www.shackbible.com ShackBibleGuy

I love the idea of participating in the church community without sitting through sermons that wound. It seems like a great third way.
http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

LOOOOVE this idea! thanks HG!

http://blog.amberlbaker.com Amber-Lee

I’m on board with these ideas. We all love you and want to see you whole – that includes seeing your family whole as well. Is there maybe an anglo-catholic parish in your area? One of the nice things about the ECUSA is you can often find a church that will be a little more protestant or a little more high church. I’m not the biggest fan of church shopping, but don’t stay at the grocery store that keeps serving you spoilt meat!

http://deodate.wordpress.com Andei

I love the fact that you find healing through your soup – it must taste wonderful because it was made with so much more than ‘ingredients’. I work with children every day and I wish that we could see more clearly through their little eyes. I’m sad that you’ve been hurt by ‘church people’. I thank God that he has gently led you to a place where you can truly know his love for you, but the scars remain and the scar tissue pulls at us. Thanks for sharing this Elizabeth.
http://www.likeawarmcupofcoffee.com Sarah Mae

I just love you Elizabeth. And I love your heart, and who you are.
http://mommainprogress.blogspot.com Momma in Progress

Forgive me for sounding confused, but is the issue with the Presbyterian church specifically, or all Protestant denominations? I don’t know much about Presbyterians . . . although I might assume this has to do with that whole predestination thing? Certainly I would hope that it is not a common belief of Catholicism that Protestant denominations present the view that God’s love is conditional? If so, yikes.

http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

I haven’t been to *all* Protestant denominations. However, I have been to many, many Protestant churches: Baptist, non-denominational, Brethren, Calvary Chapel, etc. and the conditional love of God is a common belief. I do have friends who were raised Methodist and they grew up believing in God’s unconditional love–which is great! Hope that clears up your confusion a bit.

http://mommainprogress.blogspot.com Momma in Progress

I’m still confused as to how this conditional-ness is even evident, presented, qualified, expressed, um, some word I cannot think of but a verb . . .
I’ve been to Methodist churches, as well as non-denomination services, but mostly attended Lutheran churches in the nearly 20 years since I left the Catholic church. Which I left precisely *because* of what I perceived as an atmosphere of conditionality. Hmm.

http://mommainprogress.blogspot.com Momma in Progress

Okay, I just scrolled down and found your response about clarifying the “who-ness” and it makes a bit more sense to me now. I personally have never felt the churches I attended (non-denominational, Methodist, or Lutheran) ever expressed anything other than Yes, God’s Love Is Absolutely Positively Unconditional.
I don’t know what I would do in your shoes. I understand the going for family, but still . . . ugh. I don’t know what to say. This blog makes me think to much.

http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

I’m glad that explanation was helpful. ((hugs)) As for my blog making you think too much….sorry? LOL!

http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

I have nothing but respect for your journey and please know there is no judgment here from me. I’ve heard similar stories from many folks who’ve left the CC because they lived in an atmosphere of conditionality and guilt. I only hope you can have equal respect for my spiritual journey. I am sorry that I am unable to answer your questions satisfactorily. Thank you for reading.

http://evenonesparrow.blogspot.com rachel – even one sparrow

Beautiful. I love how we need to do something visceral in order to cope with our emotions. It’s just another indication of how integrated our body, soul, and mind are. God has created us to be complete, whole beings.

P.S. I’m doing this new thing on my blog where I’m highlighting ones that I think others should read. I just highlighted yours (you’re the second one in the series!). Hope it attracts more readers:
http://evenonesparrow.blogspot.com/2011/09/blog-highlight-elizabeth-esther.html
SaraJ

For years and years I believed that I’m so disgustingly sinful that God can’t even LOOK at me without Jesus standing between us. I finally landed in a church that taught about a pursuing, loving God who likes me and whose grace helps me become the person I really want to be. So, I feel your pain.

However, I still have a hard time in church.
http://theincorrigiblegingers.blogspot.com Rachel S.

I’m sorry. That is hard. And on a somewhat unrelated note, your post reminds me why I don’t let my son “cry it out” at night. The fact that he could remember, could have to deal with that pain, and have to sense a less than unconditional love….I don’t want that.

http://evenonesparrow.blogspot.com rachel – even one sparrow

I appreciate this comment, as a person who is also not willing to let my baby CIO, even though it seems that every Christian parent around me thinks it’s the only way. Sometimes I feel very alone in my convictions on this matter..

Sarah

I’m confused. I thought Presbyterians were Calvinist in teaching, so they would teach that God’s love is unconditional(nothing you did to earn it and nothing you can do to lose it). Also, teaching on predestination (which is actually a scary teaching for me, as some would be born predestined to NOT be w/ the Lord). Then, I thought that the Catholic church more taught you had to stay in God’s graces by your works. I’m still learning, so forgive me if I have it all messed up.

http://moss-place.stblogs.org Peony Moss

that the Catholic church more taught you had to stay in God’s graces by your works.

Not quite. This link has a good explanation.

Sarah

Thank you for the link Peony. There are many, many things I love about the Catholic faith, but where I stumble is not knowing if my salvation is a stable thing. For instance, if I were to die with an unconfessed sin, then from what I understand, I would go to hell. I get that it would have to be a mortal sin. Truthfully, I am always messing up in some way. So, I truly need to believe that God is there for me always and not going to reject me because I can’t be perfect. You know?

Ben

“if I were to die with an unconfessed sin, then from what I understand, I would go to hell.”
I want to give you some hope then. A Catholic who dies with unconfessed sin can still be saved! If the person dies repentant, wanting forgiveness, and would have confessed given the chance, they will certainly receive that forgiveness. The Church is bound by the Sacraments (and they are the greatest medicine we’ve got), but God is not bound by them. His mercy is always greater than his justice and He wants all His children to be saved. I’m pretty sure all that I’ve written here is as the Church teaches, but if I’ve made any mistake I defer to Her. Pax Christi! –Ben
http://moss-place.stblogs.org Peony Moss

I know

It’s true that our salvation is not a “fixed thing” in that we always have free will and the choice to reject God. We need to guard against “presumption” – the idea that anything we do is A-Okay because God luvs everything and isn’t a big ole meanypants who will let us experience the consequences of our actions.

At the same time, we have to avoid the trap of “despair”, the throwing away of hope (my sins are so horrible and big, God could never love me, it’s too late for me, etc)

If it’s any help: the deeper I get into Catholic teaching, the more tenderness I find, the more reassurance that yes, we’re weak, we’re sinful, and God knows that and loves us right now and wants to heal us and make us holy and perfect. Catholic spiritual writers emphasize this again and again: you’re going to fall, you’re going to mess up, and it’s just part of being human – ask God for mercy and help, and keep going.

Lynn

The downside of that predestination is that God loves you even though you are disgusting, and grace doesn’t make you better, it just hides the yuck. Luther called them snow covered dung hills.

http://blog.amberlbaker.com Amber-Lee

And the Catholic teaching is that righteousness is imputed, not imparted. Thus, the righteousness of Christ is in your inner self, transforming you. I like the imputed view better

shadowspring

@Momma in Progress:

Your comment really blew me away. You just read how EE was group pressured into repeating words from the Presbyterian pulpit that God loves us “in spite of” who we are- not because He might actually like us, and certainly not because He delights in us, but only in a sort of pinching-His-nose-shut-in-disgust- Jonathan-Edwards-roasting-bug sort of way. Yuck!

How can you ask if that is a Catholic opinion? It is a cold hard fact that she heard this in a Presbyterian church this Sunday morning. It has nothing to do with the fact that she attends a Catholic church in the evening. In fact, she could be finding refuge anywhere else, and it would not change one iota what she heard in the Presbyterian church that morning.

Your comments sounds really anti-Catholic, and I hope that is not what you intended to convey. If you really want to know the official Catholic “beliefs” about Presbyterian churches (if there are any), send an e-mail to your local diocese web site. Priests and/or nuns trained in the minutia of Catholic doctrine would no doubt be happy to answer your question.

As for me (and I am not Catholic and do not attend a Catholic church), the Evangelical Presbyterian Church I attended for six months clearly taught and practiced conditional love, and through some good old-fashioned latent Southern racism in to boot. If your tribe is Presbyterian, you should just accept the existence of your embarrassing cousins and love them anyway, not cast an indignant glance at the people who point out its offensive.

This teaching that God’s love is limited and exclusive is part and parcel of Calvinism. Own it and work it, girl, if you are going to ascribe to it. Just don’t marvel at those damaged by it as somehow flawed. I suppose the proper Presbyterian response is to thank God that you, at least, are part of the elect, not like most other men but have full assurance of your elect status. =D

http://mommainprogress.blogspot.com Momma in Progress

I have absolutely no idea how you got any of that out of my question. But, um, wow. I think I am speechless.

shadowspring

*through=threw
Theresa in Alberta

I am very very sorry for your pain!!!! Here is a website of a woman (former protestant turned catholic) who also was abused but thru the grace of God over came it. (raised by cult like family)
http://abbaslittlegirl.blogspot.com/p/out-of-darkness-rough-draft.html
shadowspring

EE,

My husband is the child of fundamentalist evangelical missionaries, and the pain of abandonment (esp. done in the name of Jesus and proposed as the perfect will of God) is something he is still trying to heal from as well. Very, very difficult. After three years of medication and therapy, he is still not healed, though he is way, way further down the path to wholeness than he was when he started. I am sad for all the children of ministers who have suffered so while their parents were out “serving the Lord”. In this I do think the Catholics have some advantage. No priest ever neglected wife and/or children to “serve the Lord”. =D

http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

Just for the sake of clarity, I will note that it’s only the Latin Rite Catholic churches in which the whole of the priesthood takes monastic vows of celibacy. Although that’s by far the largest rite, there are somewhere around 13 Eastern Rites in communion with Rome who have a mixture of monastic and married priests. And they do have a number of churches in those rites here in the US as well. I know of at least one in the Austin area, for example. (A friend and coworker who passed away from cancer a few years ago was a member of it.) And, of course, Orthodox priests are also a mixture of the married and monastic. Bishops of the Orthodox and all Catholic Rites are celibate and have been since around the 7th century, I believe.

Steph

I’d also add that there are Catholic lay missionaries.

Stephanie

Elizabeth-
I read your blog this morning and I am regular follower of yours. My heart was sadden to hear of your pain and proud of your sacrifice through pain to be with your family, and I know it very well. I too, went just to be with my kids, and I know the pain would come but in that God met me and healed my heart. I don’t believe he wants those memories locked in your heart, but for the light of Jesus Christ to shine on them so he can continue to heal you. And as I was praying for you this morning I felt a prompting to pray specifically that the balm of Gilead would come and heal you. Grace and peace for your continued journey you are called to much more than what the enemy tried to destroy you with and I pray just strength for you as you parent your beautiful babies and love your husband. I also pray that is not from me would fall away and the Holy Spirit would just speak to you the words you are suppose to hear.
Kate

EE, could you clarify the connection, if you meant to make one, between the Presbyterian liturgy about God loving us “in spite of” who we are and your comments about that church’s teaching on conditional love? I really don’t like the “in spite of” formulation (at ALL), but isn’t the liturgy trying, pretty clumsily, to say that God loves us no matter what sins we commit? In other words, that his love is unconditional?

I’m an ex-Presbyterian leaning toward Catholicism, so I’m sympathetic to your posts about your Sunday dilemma. Still, though I have my problems with my childhood Presbyterianism, I never thought of “conditional love” as one of them.

http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

I appreciate where you’re coming from, here. If this were true, though, wouldn’t the confession read something like: God loving us in spite of the wrong we’ve done? In other words, it’s quite a different thing to say that we ARE our sin or we ARE our wrongdoing–i.e that our very being is worthy of rejection. The confession reads that God loves us in spite of WHO we are. To me, that says something different; ie. that my WHO-ness, my essential, core being is corrupt, depraved and worthy of rejection.

This is quite different from the Catholic view of the essential nature of the human person. Just my thoughts…

Kate

Hm, good points. I’m still not sure the Presbyterian take on human nature necessarily implies that God’s love is conditional, but I definitely do appreciate Catholicism’s greater emphasis on the imago Dei in us (vs. Presbyterianism’s emphasis on our depravity).

KT

I have to add too that I don’t think it’s a biblical idea to say that sin is all we are. What about being new creations in Christ? What about the fact that God delights in his children? Christ’s righteousness being the condition for our salvation is just the glorious start. After that we are changed, inevitably and perfectly. We are made lovable. Any pastor who doesn’t teach this needs to go back and study the doctrine of salvation a little more!

KT

As a Presbyterian, I can only understand God’s love to be conditional in one sense – and that’s that the condition is the atoning death of his Son Jesus Christ. It has absolutely no “condition” on us. It’s all on God. He took the whole risk, he makes and fulfills the only “conditions.” There is nothing we have to do, no way we can make him stop loving us, in fact no way that we would even be able to want to try. That’s the doctrines of the Bible as I’ve been taught them. I may misunderstand the Bible and I may misunderstand what I’ve taught, but there it is.

I also have never heard the formulation of God loving us “in spite of ourselves,” although I can understand where it comes from. Doesn’t God love us because when he looks at us he sees the absolute sinless perfection of Christ? Aren’t we in Christ the most beautiful new creation that can possibly be imagined, indeed more beautiful than can possibly be imagined?

In childhood I went to a church that tended to have a “woe is me” focus on sinfulness. In later childhood we transferred to a church that was always drawing us to revel in God’s grace and love. I’ve always felt freer in the latter, and like the emphasis was more correct.

So sorry that what you heard wounded you yet again.

http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

And the common theme in these strands of Protestant confession is that we’re sinful and God can’t be around sin (which is clearly unbiblical — though sin might have a problem being around God), and can’t even look at it. Jesus then comes and stands between God and us, so that when God looks at us, he only sees Jesus. In this story, God never actually loves us. He loves Jesus and we hide behind him. Frankly, I’m not sure that even qualifies as conditional love, but it’s certainly not unconditional love. I have more personal experience with the Baptist strain of the above than the Presbyterian, though I’m not unfamiliar with the latter.

Steph

Your first six lines are exactly what I’ve always heard. I think it all hinges on the theory of atonement and what exactly it is and does. I’m hearing there’s a lot of debate on that right now and I’m really intrigued.
Steph

Ironically, “when God looks at me, he sees Jesus” was a huge step forward for me. I had internalized this: “When God looks at me, it’s difficult for him to put up with me, but when I die, it’ll be okay b/c I’ll be ‘clothed in Christ.’” How/why I internalized this, I’m not sure, but seeing myself as acceptable to God because of Christ *now* and not just after death was a huge step forward.
……….. Oh, dear. ………
I told my husband yesterday I am “this close” to leaving the church and walking away. Despite not having the same problem as Elizabeth with the who versus what wording, maybe I should take a look at God again.
Thanks for the discussion, EE and others. Makes me think.

Emily

I know you’ve been deeply hurt by the teachings of your childhood and I don’t want to belittle that, particularly as the religious teachings of my childhood were also deeply hurtful and I understand the difficulty of overcoming those hurts. I also was not at your entire church service so perhaps I simply don’t understand the entirety of the sermon. But I do know that God loving us “in spite of who we are” is not conditional love. It’s the exact opposite. Loving us in spite of our flaws, our messiness, our sin, and our selfishness – that’s unconditional love.

My husband loves me unconditionally. I can often be impatient, whiny, and selfish. Those characteristics are a part of who I am. I may not like it, and certainly I strive, with God’s help, to change those areas of my life, but they are still there, still a part of me. Does my husband enjoy being around me when I’m impatient, whiny, and selfish? Of course not. But he loves me in spite of all that. That’s unconditional love.

That’s not to say that we don’t have innate worth. We do! And the scriptures make it very clear that God loves us for who we are. But it’s also clear that as human beings we are a giant mess, and God loves us in spite of our mess. That’s unconditional love – the fact that God loves us even though we’re a big ol’ mess.

I’m sorry that the words you heard at church were harmful to you, but as someone who needs to know that God loves me in spite of all the mistakes I’ve made and the mistakes I continue to make, I wanted to give you a different perspective.

-Emily

http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

please read my response to Kate to see the difference between saying God loves me in spite of WHO i am vs. God loves in spite of the wrong things i’ve done.

Emily

I read your response to Kate (and I freely admit to being unfamiliar with the Presbyterian liturgy), but I have to disagree with your response. I don’t believe that our sin is ALL that we are, but our sin is definitely a part of who we are. To deny that fact is to deny that we need Jesus. If our sin isn’t a part of us, if it’s something separate and unconnected, then we don’t need Jesus to save us from it. Our sin IS a part of us and the fact that a holy, righteous, blameless God loves us in spite of that – pretty amazing.

At the same time, accepting that our sin is a part of who we are doesn’t negate that we are made in God’s image. My pastor taught a few weeks ago on creation and how before there was “original sin” mankind was created for “original glory” – made in God’s image to rule the earth with him. Amazing. That’s a part of who we are too. And while it’s important to remember how and why we were created, we also have to accept the sin that is a part of us. Both parts are present in the makeup of our whole being. It is possible for God to love us for who we are AND in spite of who we are.

Thanks for letting me comment!
Emily

http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

Hmmm. The biblical idea of ‘sin’ is ‘missing the mark’. In a sense it has the same sort of existential non-reality that evil has. (Evil is not a created thing. It lacks that substance and grounding. Yet it is real and almost tangible as a twisting of the created reality. Evil in that sense is a great mystery.)

So on the one hand, I would agree that those times and ways I have missed the mark have helped shape me into the person I am to do. On the other, those are actions (and inactions). They do nothing to describe the ‘who’ that I am. (It’s similar to the way that nothing we can say about God truly describes his essence. It all describes his actions. The same is true of us. We can describe our actions. And, since we are material beings, we can describe the attributes of our bodies. But none of those describe our essence.) So the ways in which we miss the mark do not describe any part of our being. That’s a fallacy.

Nor do they have any part in the way God sees us. God does see our essence, our true being. He recognizes the ways we have damaged and distorted ourselves and he gives himself for our healing. But he does not confuse the sickness with the human being. Ever. We see that writ large in Jesus.

http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

Of course, that begs the question, “What is the mark?” But that another and much longer discussion.
Emily

I hear what you’re saying but I simply don’t agree. If I were to describe who God is I could use words like righteous, blameless, and holy because He is pure and without sin. If I were to describe who we as humans are, or more specifically, who I am as a human, I definitely couldn’t use any of those words. Why? Because of our sin. Because of my sin. But because God loves us anyway he forgives us and sanctifies us, not because of who we are, but because of who He is.

-Emily

http://hubcityfirefly.wordpress.com Tara S

Emily! Hello! I definitely get what you are saying in your posts, although I see things differently. Alas, it takes a silly anecdote to convey where I’m coming from.

The other night my husband was talking about how he judges the relative attractiveness of people (or TV characters in this instance) mainly by their personality traits, and that – in his observation – there is a small group of men who don’t take personality into account, judging attractiveness solely by physical attributes. I burst out – “but my personality is the best thing about me!”

Now, as a wife and mom, my many flaws and limitations are *daily* visible to me. My impatience, my selfishness, my whining, the lazy slovenliness of my younger years coming back to haunt me… ALL my awful qualities. And yet I could still feel that immediate confidence that my best effort to be pleasant and kind makes my personality shine through okay – in spite of my faults, but not in spite of me.

In the same way, I can’t help but see these bad traits I occasionally display as the gunk, dirt, and damage *on* me, not *of* me. I am responsible for them – I need to do my best to clean them off with God’s grace, but I can’t help but think they aren’t inherent to the most imp0rtant part of me. They aren’t real attributes of my soul. Thus, if God really sees who I am (my soul), He doesn’t need to love me “in spite of ME,” only in spite of what has happened to me and in spite of what I have done to my self. The dirt and damage absolutely gets in the way of me being able to be close to God and to do His will. But in my mind, this is more similar to a dirty, muddy, scratched-up child who is in no shape to set the table, or get ready for bed. In order to be in my proper place and to be closer and more helpful to my parent, I have work to do. But He still sees the child underneath as precious as ever, and only wants me to stay still to get cleaned off, instead of being naughty and running away!

http://www.sadiemotta.typepad.com JoAnn

Hey friend. I think, if you’ll listen…it’s time to stop. Stop going to the a.m. church. Stop sending your kids. Let Matt take whichever kids actually want to go with him and you take others with you. Find peace at church in your soul. God isn’t picky about where you go or if you go. Your christian readers are going to freak- but you know, in your heart- loving God is enough. Stop being a martyr. It’s not helping anyone in your family, and you’re teaching your children something you don’t want them to learn by your actions. Think about it. They don’t have to convert- just attend mass, and have a happier mother.

http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

JoAnn: as someone who knows me in real life, I value your opinion highly. I will, definitely, take your suggestion to heart and pray about it. Hugs to you.

http://www.sadiemotta.typepad.com JoAnn

huggin’ you back

http://chroniclesofachristianheretic.blogspot.com Sandra

I cannot echo Joanne strongly enough! Please meet your own needs… and bring the children along. You cannot serve your family by being a martyr no matter how much we former fundies have been conditioned to believe we must.

http://thecannyfamily.blogspot.com Autumn

YES to what the above commenter Emily said! Yes!

God loves me despite who I am is unconditional, never let go, kind of love. I’m not doubting your reaction or understanding was different, but I’m saying I read through your whole post last night and was still thinking about it this morning (despite being up all night with a non sleepng baby). Which I guess is an odd sort of props to your awesome writing.

I’ve never stepped inside a Presbyterian church. But I have sinned, do sin, will sin, and NEED to know of God’s Grace of God’s love – in spite of that sin. He doesn’t want me to sin, but He knows I will, loving me through it.

http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

OK, but there is a difference between God loving me in spite of WHO i am vs. God loving me despite the wrongs I’ve done. see my explanation to Emily.

http://thecannyfamily.blogspot.com Autumn

thank you for your reply. it does help me understand where you’re coming from a bit.

while i don’t “get” (my failing, not yours, in that i’ve never thought of some of this stuff) some of your posts lately, i love them. they are filled with raw, honest questions that show a strong woman who’s open and willing to share her journey with Jesus. peace to you, EE.

Ruth

That is exactly how I felt about it.
The fact that God loves me in spite of all my rottenness fills me with deep warm happiness because I know he can not be disappointed by me – he knew it all long ago and he took me as his joy and is proud of me because he sees me cleansed (Eph 5,25-27).
Maybe it is all a big misunderstanding?
Sorry for my English, I´m German and reading your blog on a regular basis.

Lynn

Here is a big difference: God loves us despite our rottenness? Catholics would say that while we have a tendency to sin, and we do sin, WE ARE NOT ROTTEN. One explanation I read says that in the garden, Adam and Eve were something elevated a bit above “just” human, because they walked with God. When they fell, they fell to the level of ordinary humanness. That’s the Catholic version. The Calvinist, total-depravity version says that they, and we, fell into something almost less than human, something rotten and disgusting to God. Calvinists says people are basically bad because of sin. Catholics say that people are basically good, because the image of God outweighs the stain of sin.

http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

It’s never particularly easy when you and your spouse are in different places. I’m familiar with that. Fortunately, I don’t have much childhood experience with Christianity and the negative experiences I did have came fairly late. So it’s not painful for me to attend our SBC Church. It’s just mildly irritating and I have to practice the discipline of ‘keeping my mouth shut’ which can be hard for me.

Kids are a different story. My adult children aren’t really interested in Christianity anymore. A fair amount of that has to do with both the intellectual shallowness and some of the issues you outline with it in this post combined with my own ineptness as I tried to figure out Christianity. There’s always time for that to change, but it won’t happen because I push it, so I don’t.

My younger children were more raised within the context of our church and Christian faith. I was also more intentional about both working with them and staying closely in touch with what they were hearing (and defusing what I could) as well as exposing them to other Christian traditions. We’ll see how that works out. I’ve had lots of great discussions with them both. They tend to ask wonderful questions.

http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

Oops. Forgot my closing thought. I don’t really have any suggestions, but I’m not sure it’s a good idea to continue to expose yourself to something you experience as the pain of abuse. And if it’s not healthy for you, in the long run it won’t be healthy for your family either.

Sharon O

I love the warmth of the soup nourishing your ‘soul and spirit’ needing comfort, as in when we are feeling sick or sad warm chicken noodle soup is comfort. (or any other soup)
Personally I think churches make life too difficult for the mass of people searching. God is mostly concerned about our ‘heart’ condition. Why on earth would He allow His Son to go through all the grief of the cross if we were not worthy or valuable enough? Even Jesus in the garden said “Please Father let this cup pass by me.” He was human as well as God and He didn’t want the crosses pain yet He knew the purpose of it and He remained obediant. I always go back to the simple truth that,”Jesus Loves Me this I know for the Bible tells me so. Little ones who Him belong they are weak but He is Strong.” It is not complicated nor is it rules or regulations or acts or not acts or anything like that. When I first grasped the concept that His LOVE is wide and deep and ever so precious. Nothing else really matters … I don’t care what others say for me to do or not. It is a personal RELATIONSHIP. Like a friend.
Jesus Loves me… no matter what I do or say or what church I go to or not go to. His love is beyond that. I don’t have to do anything for his love to be here or not be here. Just as my own children. I love them in good days and in bad days. I will always love them when they don’t like me or do like me. Nothing they do will change that love that is in my heart for them. I protect them I love them I will do what I can to keep their hearts safe. God does the same for you and I… the rest are man made ‘do’s and don’ts’. I was not raised in the church so my relationship is more intense more like a deep valuable true to life Friend. And when I read the word it is like his love letter telling me how to live, love and worship. I don’t know if this helps but I think your honesty is exactly what God wants and HE will Bless you abundantly because you are searching with an honest heart. My prayers will remain with you. Sharon O

http://mommainprogress.blogspot.com Momma in Progress

Sharon, I love this, and I feel the same way. It’s about the *relationship* . . . yes; definitely. Personally I haven’t felt comfortable and accepted inside of any church in recent years. I’m not really sure what to make of that now that I just typed it.

http://mamamiamcmasters.blogspot.com/ Linda

Ah. EE.
I am already in a raw place this morning and reading this post made me a bit weepy. I love that you are choosing peace and clinging to what is true. Somehow you survived and found Jesus despite the trauma inflicted wrongly in his name. I cringe at the thought. But you are a survivor. And you are a world changer. And I am so glad that you choose to embrace Jesus and share your journey with me. Thank you for being a model of honesty and vulnerability. It’s very brave of you.
Jack

\\I don’t know how to make sense of this.\\

Dear Elizabeth, you can’t make sense out of things that are intrinsically nonsense, so don’t waste your effort.

You know such things as God loving us only conditionally are bee ess, so try to ingore them.
http://wnorwood.com Wendi

I am so glad I found this blog and how it really challenges me to think and examine my beliefs. I am so sorry to hear that your experience has been what I would call “legalism” where we have to earn God’s love through our behavior. I’m a Calvary Chapel gal, and I don’t believe I ever heard it taught that God’s love is conditional, quite the opposite actually! I really think it’s one of Satan’s best strategies: to distort truths and take people to radical extremes. The Bible clearly teaches how loved we are by God, how He lovingly pursues us, and yet also the truth that at our core, we are sinners. And yet we are sinners that God loves….dearly. We are not to live in cowering fear under God, and yet we are also not to live however we want and still think that we are pleasing to God. It’s hard to put into words, but I hope you know what I mean.
Blessings to you Elizabeth–I find your blog totally fascinating!
http://www.theoutdoorwife.com Nish

Imma hug the bejeezus outta you in about 3 weeks.

That’s all.

xo
Maryann Faro

I don’t know you, but I’m a Catholic revert, an adult child of an alcoholic and I truly love your blog. So I hope my comments don’t come off as hurtful, but when I see the photos and read your post…Well, first off let me say, you’re a very pretty, glowing person in most of your pictures. But when you’re standing there in a black dress on Sunday, not smiling, ladling soup from a big iron pot with a ladle that looks so heavy, it makes me sad.

I think that in your mind, you see it as: Going to a church that makes me feel small and nourishing my family with soup is the right thing to do. Soup is comforting, this is how I heal myself from church. This ritual gives me a sense of control over a day that scares me. My work and my compromise show my family I love them.

But what I personally feel when seeing the photos and reading this post is: “It is Sunday, and E’s morning church is causing flashbacks and pain, but she will sit through the service and go home and ladle out hot, steaming soup from a big pot with a heavy ladle. Her family wants her at church so she’ll go, and she’ll make them soup afterwards, but she is suffering. You can see it in her face and the steam and the long, heavy ladle that seems so hard to lift.”

Part of me wants to say, dear, pretty, smart Elizabeth, you will see Jesus on the crucifix at Mass tonight, you don’t have to crucify yourself too. Put down the ladle, snuggle with your kids and a blanket, but don’t go to that church.

And yet…I KNOW how hard it is to be drawn to the Catholic Church when a spouse is not, and you want to be a good wife and not make it seem like you’re abandoning your husband, so you go to two churches. I did that for a while too.

(Fortunately my Protestant church was not legalistic or condemning, but they did have some subtle anti-Catholic biases they expressed, and I squirmed a few times. My husband eventually went to Mass with me and converted, so all things are possible! But I digress…)

Back to you, can’t there be any sort of compromise…a different church, same church but you skip it and then you all go out to brunch together? Or the previous suggestion of doing something outside the service that gets you away for a while?

If only there was like a “cry room” for adults, where people could sneak off when the sermon gets too legalistic or condemning. There could be fun toys and cushy chairs and bible picture books–Jesus holding the lamb, reminding us of how much we are loved and held.

I know you say making the soup is your way of making peace and showing love, but in the pictures and between the blog lines, it seems to me like you have a heavy, dark Sunday, gritting your teeth through a service and then working hard in the kitchen, standing over a hot pot and dragging a heavy ladle. And I wish that somehow Jesus could come in there and take your hand and say, It’s ok, be with me, step away from the hot pot, put the ladle down.

I hope and pray that this post doesn’t come off as mean or clueless. I value your blog so much and I hope I haven’t offended you.

Maryann Faro

P.S. Ack, when I said “don’t go to that church,” I meant don’t go to that Presbyterian church that makes you fell unloved.
http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

LOLOL! This made me laugh! The only reason I’m not smiling in these pictures is because I’m concentrating. I’ve been told that my face looks mean or sad or angry when I’m thinking/concentrating and I guess that’s how you’re seeing these pictures! I actually LOVE making soup and it was the best part of my Sunday yesterday! I’m not offended by your remark, I love it! much love to you! xo. EE.

http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

Funny! My wife always tells me the same thing — that I look angry or sad when I’m concentrating. Often she’ll ask what’s wrong, and I’m like, “Huh?”

http://none anonymous

Hi Elizabeth….I agree that the normalization of the sexualization of toddlers is appalling. It’s unhealthy in so many ways, but think about this in terms of your kids’ spiritual health and development: aren’t you normalizing cognitive dissonance for them by attending a church that you have no respect for? You don’t have to read your blog very long to know that you care deeply and passionately for your kids, which is why this issue stands out in my mind as odd…You refuse to say the words, “in spite of who I am,” yet your children are being taught that which you disdain? If they aren’t aware of the inconsistency now, they will be eventually, and it’s tough enough to parent teenagers without putting a target on your back for them.

http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

Yes, I am a hypocrite and a mess. I’m stumbling forward on this journey and seeing glimpses of light and hope. Part of writing honestly means that people will see my inconsistencies and errors. Forgive me. I am trying the best I can.

Krista

Elizabeth, this is not being hypocritical to have your children be taught something you disagree with. Don’t be so hard on yourself! You are not the only parent in the home, and just as you disagree with some Protestant beliefs, your husband disagrees with some of your Catholic beliefs. It would not be right or fair to say that ONLY your beliefs can be shared with the kids, or ONLY your husbands. You are both a parenting team, and both sets of beliefs should be taught!! Your children are learning right now what one parent believes. That is not hypocritical of you, you are trying to be a dual parent respectfully to your husband!!! It is something you guys will figure out how to talk to your kids about, maybe now, maybe sometime soon, you all can have discussions about how there are many branches of Christianity and how they are different. I am chiming in here because my husband and I are doing the whole Protestant-Catholic thing too (only we knew it going into our marriage). So we decided we would talk with our kids about all the differences, go to both Churches, and respect the journey that we each are on. I don’t feel hypocritical at all when my children hear some doctrines of the Catholic Church I disagree with, because I still respect them as well within the realm of Christian Teachings. Anyway, sorry for rambling, I meant this to be an encouragement. A dual-church household is tough, but with lots of talking with your spouse hopefully you can come to have frank and honest discussions with your children. Mine are all still very young, so I haven’t had to field any terribly tricky questions yet… lol!
Krista

I would amend what I said, in that if you truly feel like they are under hurtful teaching, that is a completely different story than I am talking about.
http://none anonymous

I’m sorry that I came across as judgmental and critical. I did not mean to, and truly, I apologize because I am very aware of my own shortcomings and the “mess” I sometimes feel like I am. I am the mom of teenagers, and they can be brutal on inconsistencies. It’s tough enough to keep them on your team regarding spiritual things if you’re endorsing what they’re being taught. I’m sorry I sounded harsh.

http://www.elizabethesther.com elizabeth

All forgiven! Thank you for understanding and empathizing with me. I so truly appreciate it. ((hugs))

http://www.whisperingsomething.blogspot.com Alexandra

Elizabeth, in the short time I’ve been reading your blog, I’ve read your correction about common misconceptions concerning Catholic teaching – there are tons of them, and unfortunately, there ARE many Catholic priests who teach according to these misconceptions. The same thing happens within the protestant churches. Presbyterian doctrine does NOT teach that God’s love or salvation is conditional IN ANY WAY. The problem is, the Presbyterian church in the USA (especially the PCUSA) is divided into so many different camps, that basically there is no supervision of what individual pastors teach.
The thing that concerns me most about this post is not your own pain – though I can relate to that. It is the fact that your children are growing up in a church that teaches this kind of heresy. What is it about this particular church that makes it the ONE church your family must attend? If it’s a denomination thing, there are plenty of wholesome, biblical Presbyterian churches. But just as I can so see your point about how our daughters need a different story concerning their sexuality, they also need to hear the true story about God’s love. Otherwise, they may have to spend years (like many of us have had to do) healing from the damaging view of God which they were taught. This is NOT a Protestant vs. Catholic issue. This is a truth vs. lie issue.

http://mommainprogress.blogspot.com Momma in Progress

Totally agree. Not a Protestant vs. Catholic issue by any stretch, nor even an issue with a specific denomination, per se. If the church is “teaching” that God’s love requires some sort of hoops to jump through to receive, well . . . ack! I could write for days on that.
Now I must admit I am curious, though, if denomination (Presbyterian) is critical to Hubby, why this particular church and not another? Or has trying another church (a different Presby church) not come up as an option?

http://www.ayoungmomsmusings.blogspot.com Young Mom

I’m glad you’ve been able to experience God’s love as unconditional. I can not see it no matter what I read or where I go.
http://www.grace-filled.net jen

for what it’s worth, i think your sabbath day of soup is awesome. religious abuse (like any abuse) leaves scars and it takes time to heal. soup seems like a great medium for that because it occupies your hands and the finished product is something that nourishes you and others.
Tammy

I dont have anything to add to the wisdom of knowing what to do in the conundrum of a loving marriage where there is not union on the Catholic Protestant issue. I was Calvary Chapel when we married and now Im Catholic. There is a man who goes to my church…he was a lapsed Catholic for most of his marriage and attended a protestant church. After both of thier children (13 & 15 years old girls) were murdered, he reverted but she is a die-hard Baptist awaiting the rapture. When I see them. I can feel pain radiating off of them on this topic and knowing how much pain they have already suffered, I just squirm. I pray regularly for them to find a place of peace.

When I saw the photo of you cooking soup, I thought of this—>
http://www.griefwatch.com/tearsoup/
grief comes in many sources

Tammy

Im answering myself (which is always a bad sign…Im not sure I had a full grasp on my own native language when I sleepily responded this morning).
I didnt become Catholic until we had been married almost 5 years, the time since then has blunted my memory concerning how hard that was.
God was surely faithful for my persistence in pursuing Truth in the journey. I wish I could spare others the same pain. I ask God to bless anyone going through tis with peace that passes all understanding.

http://www.emergingmummy.com Sarah@EmergingMummy

A beautiful and sad post. I grieve with you for it all and love you hard, sister. xo

When Sunday religion hurts you, make soup

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