If it feels good, it’s sinful

Posted on December 5, 2011 by elizabeth

Why do parents believe God wants them to spank their children into submission? There are several underlying beliefs that motivate this approach:

The parents believe human beings are essentially, inherently evil and thus…
God wants parents to “break” their child’s will.
And since “foolishness is bound up in the heart of child,” the only way to properly drive foolishness out of a child is by spanking.
Lastly, parents believe their own human heart is “desperately wicked” and therefore, their own emotions are dangerous and not to be trusted; ie. they will suppress their natural, nurturing instinct in order to administer swift, harsh spankings.

A powerful method of manipulation is the suppression of normal, human emotions. While I was growing up, I was only allowed to feel a very narrow range of acceptable feelings. In fact, when I started going to therapy, one of the first things my therapist did was give me a kid’s book that identified all the various human feelings.

Up until that point, I had methodically repressed all but a very few, select emotions. If I felt happy, I thought for sure I was sinning. God didn’t want us to be happy, He wanted us to be holy!

I once had a friend in college ask me how many happy days I’d experienced in six months. Oh, that was easy. I’d only had 3 happy days. My friend was shocked. But I quickly tried to explain that actually this was good because it meant God was “working in my life.” I was happy to be unhappy.

Hint: you might be in an unhealthy church environment (or following abusive teachings) if you’re “happy to be unhappy.” Or if the only time you feel good is when you’re suffering.

I honestly believe this is how parents justify harming their children. They truly believe God wants them to make their children suffer–for their own eternal good.

When a parent sets out to break their child’s will, other things get broken, too. You can’t just break a person’s will without affecting everything inside that person.

For example, there were several points in my life when I went totally numb. I was simply unable to feel anything anymore. It was sorta like a state of shock. I stopped caring. Thankfully, with the help of therapy, I’ve recovered most of my normal, healthy feelings.

But some parts of me have remained permanently broken.

This is why, when my estranged grandparents die, I won’t attend their funeral. They broke me. Whatever glowing ember of normal human love a grandchild has for her grandparents was utterly quenched. I feel nothing toward them.

I suppose this why I’m so passionate about defending children. Because the truth is: you really CAN permanently harm them. You CAN break important parts of their being.

Sure, you can force your child to obey. You can break their will.

But understand that you can’t choose what you’re breaking. You don’t have control over what happens if you choose to break your child.

If you try to break the human will, you just might end up breaking the human person.

———————————————————————————————————–
if you’re in Southern California, my appearance on Anderson Cooper’s daytime talk show airs today at 1pm on Fox11.

This entry was posted in Childbearing, Cults, Michael & Debi Pearl. Bookmark the permalink.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Ron-Kerns/100000658746013 Ron Kerns

sounds like what my inlaws have tried (unsuccessfully) to get my wife to do (they won’t talk to me about things like this…because they know I’ll flat-out tell them it’s wrong)…

But, EVERY TIME our kids even look at us “wrong” (give us that “whatever” look), if her mom is around, she starts with the “You’ve just got to beat their butts!”…period. That’s her answer for EVERYTHING.

Sure, we’ve spanked…but, only when justified…

And, what a coincidence…the church they go to is just as you described, too. The saddest place…going to church on Sunday is like going to a funeral. (We try our hardest to avoid going there…but, sometimes it’s unavoidable)…at least it’s a full 8 hours away!

keep it up, Elizabeth! You’re doing great!
Rebecca

This sums it up so well for me. I know the Pearls books are morality responsible for 3 deaths (which is horrible) but I have wondered how many 100s, probably 1000s of emotional deaths they are responsible for.
I did attend my fathers funeral but was suprised I had no emotion to offer. What my parents have done to me and my siblings is horrible.
The 1st time I read a Pearl book I wondered if he and my father were friends. I think I am to old (37) for my parents to have read their books but they TOTALLY believed and “trained” that way.
It is wrong, it is abusive and it MUST stop.
Physical abuse is one thing – when you throw in the spiritual and emotional abuse it becomes so dark and deep I have often wondered if a person ever does fully heal.
And the average church; while they may say they do not support it – certainly turns a blind eye to it & offer little if any help to the victims. I sometimes wonder if the Church will ever understand the mess THEY are in! They want to save the world for Jesus?! They can’t defend their own women and children.

Thank you Elizabeth for being a voice for us all.
http://blueberriesforme.wordpress.com Jackie

The whole idea of Pearl’s is based on the problematic-for-anyone theology that you can “save” your child.
KR

I think this comes from an incomplete theology of people who overemphasize and twist theology and scripture and forget about the positive aspects of the gospel, how Christ transforms us and desires to develop his character in us (the fruit of the Spirit). I think if more parents focused on this rather than as you say “beating your kids into submission” they would get a lot further. A life focused on love, grace, forgiveness and truth
http://sustainablemommy.wordpress.com/ Naomi

I’ve been thinking about this issue the last few days given your appearance on Anderson Cooper and the ensuing blog posts. My parents were more influenced by Dobson than by Pearl, but with a big helping of Gothard’s authoritarianism thrown in. And suddenly it makes perfect sense to me why my father values conformity over authentic relationships with even his adult children: he is simply doing what he has always done. Even though his children are now adults, he still sees us as essentially evil toddlers whose wills must be conformed to his own. (Which reminds me of Anderson Cooper’s question to Pearl–If it works, why do you have to keep doing it?)

And although our wills were apparently not sufficiently broken (though not for lack of trying!), we all still suffer the painful effects–including awkward, uncomfortable family gatherings. ”No more dead children” is a profoundly important goal; but, as you point out here, there are many more children who are desperately wounded by these discipline methods for whom CPS was never called. We must speak up for them too.

These days as I deal with my stubborn, rambunctious two-year-old, I remind myself that my goal is not to correct her, but to teach her. One approach makes me impatient and annoyed; the other reminds me to slow down and respect her intelligence and her developmental stage. Why would I ever want to break the beautiful person she is and is becoming?

Rebecca

Dobson and Gothard!!! That does about equal Pearl doesn’t it!!! Why didn’t I think of that before?!
OK seriously. You did a GREAT job of describing my father! Bet LP and JP are brothers?
Loved your last paragraph… sometimes when I don’t know how to parent I imagine how I would have wanted to be treated as a kid. Good stuff Naomi.

http://sustainablemommy.wordpress.com/ Naomi

Wait a sec–do I know you?

KatR

Walking the happy tightrope in an abusive church is always problematic. You can’t be TOO glum, or you aren’t “rejoicing always”. Too happy, and you aren’t “taking your sin seriously”. (What sin? Don’t worry if you don’t know, you’ll be pummeled about it during discipleship group later tonight).

The Michael Pearl’s of Christianity aren’t just looking to break children, if you look in their churches, EVERYONE is broken under the authority of someone else. Everyone except the church leader, the Michael Pearl of the group. You’ll notice he’s under no ones authority. (Except, of course, God, but God somehow backs everything he does 100%. Convenient).
Sabahmom

Thank you so much for the reminder to turn on the TV! Just finished watching. One thing that really hits me is how the Christian community where MP’s influence is felt has no unified voice by which to speak out against him. While the 1st ammendment gives him the right to speak as he does, at least thus far, he still has a MORAL obligation to parents and Christian communities who follow his teaching! But as you said, EE, they are INSULAR communities. When you grow-up in such a community believing that “The Bible says” with regard to something, it takes an awful lot to step back far enough from that to even SEE what is happening, much less find the courage to act outside of that.

I know you are not writing about Catholicism here, but this is one of many areas that troubles me about my Protestant roots and is propelling me toward Catholicism – this question of “WHO SAYS?”. It is horrible and sad when parents buy into the kind of teaching that MP advocates. God gets tangled up in it. The Bible, as someone interprets it, is supposedly His mouthpiece. And the damage is incalculable.

You are the personification of courage, EE! Thank you!
http://cuppboard.blogspot.com Elizabeth Erazo

I would love to hear your thoughts on the Catholic teachings on suffering, plus maybe a post on how your Catholic faith differs from what you’ve suffered through in a cult. It seems many people who have a deep-seated misunderstanding of Catholicism label it as a cult, and I would like to here your thoughts as someone who has experienced both.
Susan

Okay, now I’m crying. I spent most of my life (and I will be 59 in February) having this stuff shoved down my throat, and now I am free and suffering from PTSD from all of those years. But I still feel better than I did before. Thank you EE.
Sabahmom

Another quick MP thought in light of Protestantism VS Catholicism (and I am speaking as a Protestant here, but one who is beginning to be open to Catholicism in new ways). There is no way to sanction MP in the Protestant community. He is claiming to speak on behalf of God and the Bible. There is no way to say with a unified voice, “No! He is not one of us! He is in error! He has no authority to speak as he does.” Authority is self-derived for Protestants. Individual interpretation of the Bible’s teaching reigns supreme. Sociological factors contribute to the spread and influence of interpretations as Christian communities/denominations are formed. It’s because of this that MP is able to continue as he does. The harm goes far beyond individuals reading his book and applying his principles. It’s the INSULATED GROUP effect that does the real damage and allows this sort of thing to continue on. What you say is so true, EE. Sincere people will suppress any misgivings they have about following this teaching because they believe their hearts are wicked and they must trust someone else’s teaching.

We all know that horrible abuse has happened to children from within the Catholic Church. And it has not always been confronted strongly enough. I’m not going to pretend that it’s been handled well. But at least I see a way within the Catholic faith that it CAN be handled well. I’m not Catholic, so I’m not defending something that is my own here. Just seeing yet another big flaw with the plethora of choices/teachings and even sometimes “crazies” within the Protestant fold.
Elizabethbonneau

You know, I realized as I got older that what my mother called spanking was really just a way to hit me when she was angry and I was a convinient target. It wasn’t so much about punishment as a need to strike out at someone and I was the easiet target being the oldest. I also learned that certain emotions and feelings weren’t allowed so I learn to repress my feelings and eventually deny them because having them must mean I was bad or doing something bad and I couldn’t be bad because bad girls like me go to hell, according to my mother. For a very long time even after leaving home, I was still afraid of my mother because of how I was raised. She prefered fear over love because fear got her quicker results. Fear made me messed up well into adulthood that I am now beginning to deal with and untangle.
http://kansasbob.com Kansas Bob

This stuff is outstanding Elizabeth! I wish that I had known this stuff when my children were small. Thankfully I eventually learned it and my relationships with my adult children are on solid ground.
theresa46

Even looking at MP thru the filter of the TV, the man looked like a very gloomy, sad scary person!!
You will know a vine by it’s fruit, and dead children, broken people, sound like bad fruit to me!!!
“No prophecy of scripture is a matter of ones own interpretation” 2 peter 1:20…….
I am no theologeon, but even when Our Lords followers exercised their free will, and abandoned him at the cross (except for his mother and John) what did he say? Father FORGIVE them…………
Lisa

Why do you still have so much hate for your grandparents? I think the fact that you even mentioned them indicates that you just wanted to prove to everyone what awful people they are. You speak with such bitterness. Maybe it’s time you let your past be your past.

VA

Oh my word. Seriously?! Many people write and blog to process their thoughts and to work things out in a more concrete way than rolling thoughts around in their heads and , while I do not know her, I think EE is one of those people. Clearly her grandparents and their cult had a huge impact on her. Impactful people and events are hard to brush off whether they be positive or negative. Plus? Dude, it’s her blog and she can write whatever she wants.
Anonymous

Oy.
Blaming the victim much?
Abused, vulnerable kids don’t just let it go. The abuse changes and shapes people.
As Va says, this is her blog. This is where she writes about all her feelings, including the ones she was taught for years to repress.
It seems to be a bit mean spirited to expect her to “just let the past be the past” without realizing the implications the past has on today.
Sarah

“Why do you still have so much hate for your grandparents?”

Ah….have you read anything Elizabeth has written? Why would you not have hate towards that kind of thing?
http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

You don’t get it. You can’t get it. And instead you speak words of condemnation.

I chose to be adopted by my father at eleven. I knew what I was I doing. I told my biological that was what I wanted. I testified to it in court. And in every way that mattered, he became my father and his family became my family.

At times as an adult, I’ve had people use the same language about “anger” and “bitterness” in an attempt to make me feel guilty. I’m not angry. I haven’t been angry in years — at least not in a personal sense. I don’t wish anyone ill. But that’s not my family. There’s nothing there. And I refuse to pretend there is in order to make some feel better. (All I would really feel is disloyal to my father — though that’s all me and nothing Dad would ever even even imply.)

Sometimes when all is said and done and you’ve let anger go, what’s left is nothing. And that’s ok.

Take your shame and your poison somewhere else.
anothercindy

One of my sons thinks I hate their father. I’ve prayed about this. I am angry at him, he continues to be abusive and refuses to respect boundaries so that distance is the only boundary I can keep. I also fear him, he is irrational and one never knows what will set him off. I know god tells us not to fear but 17 years takes more than a few months to shake off. Abuse victims do get past the abuse and can put it in the past, but don’t ask us to interact with our abusers unless that recognize the damage they have done and repented….not remorse, not “I’m sorry”, but real change.

Sarah

I’ve always thought that when God says do not fear, he’s talking in a very broad, eternal sense. He’s not encouraging recklessness, fear is healthy, it’s telling you something important. Those boundaries are important and there for a reason.

KatR

Bitterness is the correct and rational response to embittering circumstances. Plastic smiles and “forgiveness” that enable and protect abusers is not.

http://bramboniusinenglish.wordpress.com Brambonius

Bitterness is part of the destruction, and a small part of hell growing in you. It does never result in anything good and only furthers the damage that’s been done to a person. It only completes what the abusers have done.

Plastic smiles are hiding bitterness most of the time. Forgiveness is not a plastic smile, and it’s much more courageous and strong than allowing such a low parasitical evil as bitterness to invade your heart…

KatR

Bitterness has been a healthy and freeing part of reclaiming my emotions. I spent years doing the “no, it’s ok, I’m fine!” thing, and it smothered me. I’m tired of looking at bullshit and being told to claim it’s cotton candy.

http://bramboniusinenglish.wordpress.com Brambonius

I do think we have different definitions of ”bitterness’; surely when something is negative we have to acknowlegde that it’s not good. When something is evil we have to call it eval, when something has gone bad we have to call it by it’s name. But that’s not bitterness, that’s just naming something for what it is and looking at the world with realistic eyes.

Bitterness is letting the negative feelings stay longer than they should, and to let them grow and take over. But calling evil good, pain happiness and bullshit cotton candy to use your words can be equally destructive, that’s for sure…

We have to see things for what they are, but that does not mean that they need to have more influence than they deserve, and sometimes we just have to let go to keep our sanity…

Anonymous

Grandma? Is that you?
Hippie Gramma

This is a standard fundamentalist cultic “blame the victime” response. Almost word for word. Do y’all have a handbook or something?
Maggie

Sigh. There is a difference between having no feelings for a past abuser and hating them. I can’t speak for Elizabeth, but I know from personal experience that when you decide to cut off ties from an abuser, it does not mean you haven’t forgiven, or that you hate them. It just means that you choose not to associate with them. Just because someone shares your DNA, doesn’t mean they are safe to have in your life or your children’s life.

For me, there was a period of mourning, much like an actual death. When I got to the stage of acceptance, I truely had no feelings for that other person other than I hope that some day they would find their own healing for the deplorable choices they made. There was no sadness, no grief, just acceptace and looking FORWARD, not back.

Oh, and just to put this out there to extended family. Forgiving does NOT mean you have to continue to eat turkey together and ignore glaring elephant in the room.

Anise

If I may add your ideas, I think there is something even more insidious about claiming that spanking is God’s way.
Someone close to me is from China, and when he was 2-3 years old, his mother used to pinch and hurt his hands to force him to play accordion better. She is actually a very nice person who loves him very much and wanted him to be really good at something. Fortunately, his parents had the wisdom to see that this method was not good, and after talking to friends and coworkers, changed their parenting techniques.
Unlike this Chinese family, families that practice spanking for religious reasons especially as taught by the Pearls cannot so question and change their parenting method if they see it does not work. To do so, they would have to ditch their church, their friends, and even their version of Christianity and a host of other beliefs with it that spanking has become so tied to. If spanking does not work, the only action parents have is to spank more or turn to other disciplinary actions recommended by the Pearls. What happened to Hana is not a misuse of the teachings, but rather the logical solution for children whose wills cannot or do not appear to be so easily broken.
http://faithandfood.morizot.net/ Scott Morizot

I never experienced the sort of situation you describe. Was what I experienced “worse” or “better”? Who can say, really. But I do understand what you mean about parts of yourself being broken, permanently, no matter how healthy and functional you otherwise are.

Sometimes it scares my wife how much like me my youngest daughter can sometimes be. But I see in her some of the things an unbroken me could have been. And I fiercely want to protect that.

Grace and peace.
http://www.truth-makes-freedom.blogspot.com/ Katherine Gunn

Thank you for this post. I needed the reminder today. I have struggled with feeling normal emotions (still do). You are so right that some much gets broken. A friend told me early in the start of my healing journey that ‘emotions are tools, not snakes’. They are something to instruct, help…not something to fear.
http://jessicalynette.com Jessica

It breaks my heart that there are children being raised in environments like you’ve described. I am so thankful to have been protected from such abuse, as well as to not be raising our own sons in such a way.

Last year it was heavily impressed upon me (and my husband) the idea of romancing our sons – romancing their hearts to us, and ultimately to God. We’ve spent the past year with an intentional pursuit of their hearts and there is so much joy in our home as a result.
Ann

I, too, have grown to hate the doctrine of total depravity because this seems to be its logical outcome. Thankfully, I only spanked my children, but never tried to break their will.

I am just now allowing myself to feel a range of emotions that I didn’t allow because they were not simply cheerful or thankful. I hated myself for being so human. Now I am allowing myself all my emotions and loving myself -which was sinful in this mindset.

Back to children, I do believe this doctrine drives one to not really love and accept one’s children because they are such wretched sinners and need constant training to overcome this. All the love becomes conditional, though we don’t want to admit it. What to do? Love our children and ourselves unconditionally and chuck this doctrine.

Herewegokids7

My mother actually stated to me once that she felt guilty over her over-confirmation of my baby brother (now that he strayed from the faith) and felt she should have emphasized to him more that he was a wretched sinner just like everyone else….yeah, that probably would have worked! *sigh*

http://twitter.com/wranglerdani Dani Nichols

I don’t comment often, but I’m a faithful reader (and I met you at BlogSugar)

Just wanted to give you encouragement – I thought you did a great job on Anderson’s show yesterday. You’re a passionate, fabulous writer and I love it when you speak your mind, even if it “stirs the pot”. Well done!
designeronhiatus

I’ve been wrestling with my feelings lately, too. The happy vs. unhappy struck a chord with me. I’m doing the same thing with anger, fear and loneliness. I’m finding that I’ve been in the church for long enough to turn myself in circles. It’s hard to let myself just simply feel a feeling. It’s as if any feeling needs to be taken captive, looked at through the lens of scripture and then stuffed away… I’m certain that God didn’t intend for things to be this way, but I’ve been rewired. Hard to undo it all and get back to an emotionally healthy place.
http://www.downtoearthwomen.blogspot.com Tracey

This is something that my ex husband pretty much subscribes to. He constantly repeated the idea that society was a “if it feels good, then do it” kind of society.

When I finally decided to end our marriage, and then when I started dating again, he accused me of not being a Christian because I had rejected him, his ideas of Christianity and began to actually pursue happiness. One thing that didn’t shake me was that after he was no longer in my house, the peace that my kids and I felt and had within the walls of our home, was undeniably from God. It was the peace that passes all understanding and it was so needed for us.
To this day, he is an extremely bitter and unhappy person. He continues to struggle with the fact that we are no longer married, blaming me for the struggles I do have when he won’t pay child support, or tell me it’s my fault that the IRS is after him because I wouldn’t let him have the kids for tax deductions. Because he is so miserable and because he makes himself so miserable, that somehow makes him more holy.

How stinkin’ sad.
http://www.livewellwithcheryl.com Cheryl Chamberlain

Oh wow. This hits close to home. I’m processing through my own experience of “discipline” a/k/a child abuse and its so painful. An interesting point, that the parent has to turn off their own nurturing impulse in order to obey God by making their children obey. How twisted is that!
Herewegokids7

I think this is why the distinction between ‘original sin’ and ‘total depravity’ is so important, and one of the many reasons why I am now Catholic after growing up as a Protestant missionary kid. I do believe we inherit a nature that inclines us to sin…however I most emphatically don’t believe that we are essentially OR inherently evil, and it seems fairly obvious that nurture, not nature, accounts for the lion’s share of our messed-up-ed-ness. Unfortunately that so often involves our religious upbringing. I feel sure that God weeps for us.

If it feels good, it’s sinful

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