5 easy tips for promoting (edifying!) dialogue between Protestants & Catholics

Posted on February 25, 2013 by elizabeth

Last week, I got an email from a befuddled, genuinely distressed Catholic. She dearly loves her Southern Baptist friends but doesn’t know how to converse with them about Christianity. For example, the Southern Baptist once started a conversation by asking: “So, what’s the difference between Catholics and Christians?”

(You know, because Catholics aren’t Christians. Ack! Ack! Excuse me while I choke on sunking caught in me froat.)

The point is, conversations between Protestants and Catholics are often difficult, emotionally fraught and potentially damaging to relationships. Furthermore, so much of what we say gets lost in translation. Sometimes it can feel like Protestants and Catholics speak two different languages.

I grew up independent, evangelical fundamentalist, so I speak Protestant as my native language. I’ve been learning a second language–Catholicism–for the past 5 years. The point is, I can translate. A little.

Here are a few pointers for trying to “speak across the divide”:

First ask yourself: will this conversation end in mutual understanding or hurt feelings? If this is conversation between friends seeking to understand each other better, then by all means, have the conversation! But if your friend’s idea of “conversation” is better described as a theological fighting match, then I would avoid it. Mutual understanding and appreciation is never achieved through arguments.
Define terms. There are so many misconceptions about Catholicism that stem from different meanings for the same word. Catholics do not define worship in the same way Protestants do which is why Catholics are all like: “What? We don’t worship Mary!” I would say that at the beginning of any conversation between Catholics and Protestants, there needs to be an explanation and definition of terms.
Humility. I think it’s really important for both parties to enter the conversation with open minds and hearts. In school, we talk about academic humility. I think the same idea applies to spirituality. Have an attitude that says: “What I know is not all there is to know.” I think Christians of all denominations need to exercise spiritual humility. Just because we’re fluent in our native dialect doesn’t mean our way of understanding Christianity is All There Is To Know. Be open to understand and follow-up with further reading for your own self-education.
Bible knowledge isn’t everything. Many Catholics often feel intimidated by their Protestant friends who grew up doing “Bible drills” and can quote Scripture from memory. I would like to reassure my Catholic friends that knowing things isn’t everything. Living what you know is more important. Even in the “Protestant Bible” (wink, wink) there is a verse that says: “faith without works is dead.” Actually, St. James repeats this TWICE. St. James 2:20 and St. James 2:26. (Protestants won’t call him SAINT James, though, so if you feel like quoting that verse, just say: “Well, what about James 2:20 and 2:26?”).
You don’t have to be the Holy Spirit. There are 500 years of misunderstandings between Catholics and Protestants. There are like beheadings and stuff. God hasn’t called you to Solve All The Problems. That’s the Holy Spirit’s job. All you have to do is be who God made you to be. As St. Irenaeus once said, “The glory of God is a human being fully alive!” Being fully alive is the best witness of all.

Do you have suggestions for promoting edifying dialogue?
Please share!

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http://cuppboard.blogspot.com Elizabeth Erazo

Although to be fair, my husband, the Catholic in our marriage, refers to Protestants as “Christians”, so it is not just Protestants making that mistake!

I always want to remind people to have a conversation with a person, don’t just practice your apologetics ninja skills! Talk to the person, make sure you learn something about their belief as well. Search for common ground to put them at ease — Jesus, for example.

And beware of using same words with different definitions — glorification for example, can mean someone becoming a Saint (at least in Orthodoxy) or in Protestant lingo, it can mean the state of the Christian after their bodily resurrection. Once, I was surprised to hear John MacArthur say “I have been saved, am being saved, and will be saved” as I thought that was strictly Catholic/Orthodox. While he used the phrase, I’m sure it meant something very different.

Christian H

Yeah, I have an ex-Catholic friend whose Catholic family hates “Christians” very much. The rest of us were rather confused.

Amy Rosenthal

In my experience when Catholics use the word “Christians” that way, they mean the evangelical/fundamentalist Christians who have at some point tried to save them from Catholicism or who have evangelized young adults they know (perhaps even their own children) away from the Church and convinced them that their families are going to burn in hell. I know several Catholic families who have had that experience with a child, niece/nephew, cousin, etc…coming home for Christmas freshman year ready to save the entire extended family. If it happened in reverse, just as many evangelical families would have an unkind view.

Anonymous

Yes and yes–start from the point of agreement, and YES, define terms! So important.

http://www.seeprestonblog.com Preston Yancey

*cough cough* There are probably more Protestants who will call him St. James than you’d think. Anglicans and Episcopalians are still Protestants, you know. While I do agree that Bible knowledge *isn’t* everything, I wish that more of the lay Catholics I befriend and enter conversations with *did* know the Bible better, the Apocrypha included. For instance, it’s one thing to say, here are two verses in James that proof-text my point over a doctrine that’s sort-of, like a big deal; it’s another to say that we can trace a trajectory of righteousness and justification in Christ made manifest through faithful works through the whole of Scripture. Better yet, both of you get out your Bibles together and wrestle together. Because your what about James is a little too easily countered by, What about Ephesians? Romans? Galatians? … so on. It’s not so easily countered with, “Let’s treat Scripture as a whole and walk this through together.”

Robyn

Episcopalians/Anglicans are and aren’t Protestant. But we aren’t Roman Catholic.
http://theologybird.wordpress.com/2011/11/20/the-episcopal-church-catholic-and-protestant/
Anonymous

Well, that’s just a whole ‘nother kettle of fish. I mean, I can do it. (yay prostestant friends in high school and college!) But it isn’t all dependent on the Bible; it’s about Biblical interpretation, and what Paul means by “the law.” So you’d need a lot o’books to be wrastling that out.
http://www.over-the-threshold.com/ KelleyAnnie@Over the Threshold

Yes, I was going to point out that many Protestants will call him St. James as well. I know that Elizabeth is coming from the evangelical side of Protestantism and some people from that crowd who convert to Catholicism can sometimes give a false understanding of what Protestants believe to the Catholics they are hanging out with now. The Catholics start thinking all Protestants are like evangelical Protestants and it’s simply not the case. I found this in my RCIA class and had to have a real hold the phone kind of moment as this girl was spouting off “what Presbyterians believe” to me, a former Presbyterian! Otherwise, Elizabeth, thanks for the post. I am hoping to be able to a mediator between the two as a Catholic the same way I have for years as a Protestant. I know both sides very well and I’ve always jumped to defend Catholics against the ridiculous question of, Are Catholics Christians??

Ty Alexander Huynh

Kelley, we have to remember that even though someone may classify themselves as a certain denomination, it doesn’t mean they believe in all the stereotypical doctrine. I try not to classify anyone that way. Rather, I try to see what things they believe and go from there. We have to break down class/denomination barriers because it keeps the whole of God’s Body, His Church, divided, when He does not want it so. The question you need to ask people is, “Are you Christian?” instead of defending your denomination.

Ty Alexander Huynh

Preston, while it is accurate to classify different denominations, it should not be the focus. Keeping those identities and therefore divisions in the church is not what God wants us to do. Call yourself a Christian, period. If someone asks what church you’re from, tell them you belong to Jesus Christ and that’s all that really matters. We all need to work more on unifying the church rather than pointing out class differences. If differences need to be criticized, it is the different translations of the Bible. There are too many badly translated Bibles and Bibles with content that is not Scripture. The Apocrypha should not be considered valid Scripture. It was not considered so by the early church in the leading centuries after Jesus and was never authenticated like the original 39 books of the Old Testament and 27 books of the New Testament (the standard Protestant Bible). See my article Errors Of Truth, to understand more about how the early church authenticated Scripture, http://3rdcompass.com/core/network?c=jrnl&obj=6394410823674184680 . You can see my article, How To Choose A Bible, for suggestions on what Bibles you need to use for serious study, http://3rdcompass.com/core/network?c=jrnl&obj=4471205528350176744 . We do need to use the WHOLE of God’s Word, which does include His Live Spoken Word, to fully understand the truth. No one can understand what God is saying in text or otherwise by themselves or by man’s understanding. We need God’s interpretation of everything, and that is not as easy to get today as the church thinks. The church has assumed they can get it automatically, especially if they have the Holy Spirit, but that is a critical error the church has made since the earliest days of the church after the leadership of the original Apostles. The church has forgotten essential principles of following God’s Spirit that are just being re-learned today. No one can afford to ignore how to do it right from the people God chose to teach today.

madge

assumptions abound on all sides. A common tripping point here (very roman catholic tea party area) is when my RC friends argue a point on the basis of Papal authority and then choose to disregard the Bishops when it comes to things like economic social justice and the death penalty (that was a big one during the election). Fundamentalists try to go all “bible alone” but eat lobster. I have grown weary of the conversation, sadly, because there is no real desire for dialogue at least locally. There is no impetus to constructive change. discussing religion has a bad name becasue way too many folks engage in apologetics and regurgitate what they’ve been told without thinking about it critically. That kind of conversation is absolutely futile.

Anonymous

The problem these people are having is with the “non-negotiables” and the things where Catholics and Christians can fundamentally, and reasonably, disagree: economic issues are one of those, as is the death penalty. (The CCC doesn’t outlaw the death penalty, like abortion is outlawed) There’s a scale to things in Catholic thought that begins with venial and mortal sin: not all things are weighed the same way.

Emily

As an evangelical who considers mainline Protestants and Catholics to be Christians, just the same as me, I’m interested to see the conversation develop in the comments.

I absolutely agree with you that humility is key. I have the mindset that NO single person, church leader, congregation, or denomination has it “right” because we are all human and imperfect and unable to completely understand God. It is my hope not to “figure it all out” but to continually grow in my understanding of who God is and who He has called me to be. I believe it grieves God to see all the fighting and “No, my Christianity is right and yours is wrong” that goes on amongst His children. Ironically, I tend to have more grace for people who have broad differences in theology to me (like a Catholic), than someone who has the same basic theology (an evangelical) but draws different conclusions in terms of application to real life. That’s an area where I need to grow.

Thanks for starting this conversation.
Anonymous

So often, 2 people will read the same Scripture and come away with different meanings. So much depends on where you are in your own life, in your own walk with God. It doesn’t mean that one is right and the other wrong. I like to think of the black-and-white in the Bible as the ink and the page. Everything else is so many shades of gray. I don’t care how many years of seminary someone has, they don’t have all the answers. None of us can know completely the culture of the times that were written about. And for the Bible to be relevant to everyone at all times means that we will read things differently based on where we are physically, mentally, spiritually, at that particular time. No one has all the answers and we all have to remember that. Too many people are caught up in needing to ‘save’ everyone. Let the Holy Spirit do the saving! You – just be God’s light. Antagonism is darkness, not light.
fancystephanie

Great post! I’ve been trying to get my husband to consider the Catholic church for quite some time. He’s been resisting, but what convinced him to investigate Catholicism are the similarities between the Catholic and Orthodox churches. Most of our friends (including my husband’s brother) have converted from various Protestant denominations to Orthodoxy. When I pointed out that the Orthodox church doesn’t believe in “grace alone,” hubby was like, “What?!?! Our friends must just ignore that part of Orthodox doctrine.” Oh dear…
Taunya

I spent the first 35 years of my life in in the Catholic church and in Catholic schools and the last ten plus heavily involved in the protestant church. This blog post is SO on point!! Great job!!
Jake Meador

A big one is treating one another as fellow Chrisitians. Just today TGC had an article on “reaching out” to Catholics, like their Muslims, atheists, or pagans or something. Drives me crazy. Rome can sometimes be just as bad, but American Protestantism has always been particularly bad about this…

gimpi

I would say, rather, treating one and other as people, or as friends. It may surprise you, but Muslims, atheists and Pagans are people, too, with their own knowledge and points of view. We’re really not just “conversion fodder” waiting with baited breath for your words of wisdom. We can have good ideas, offer insights and be fun to just shoot the sh*t with. The idea that fellow Christians get better treatment than the rest of humanity isn’t where you want to go, right?

As an aside, what is “baited breath, anyway?

Anonymous

Google can be your friend! I found on worldwidewords.org ” bated breath refers to a state in which you almost stop breathing as a result of some strong emotion, such as terror or awe.” See, most of us spell that word wrong. And I didn’t know it until just moments ago!

Marie

Great post, Elizabeth. Kind of sad but funny….when my mom was a little girl in the 1960′s, the girl next door that she was close friends with was Catholic. My mom remembered a time they were in trouble and her friend began to pray she was all mentally like, “What? Catholic people can pray to the Lord?!” lol. I guess a bit of a learning moment for someone from a very Protestant home.
trenchbuddy

Speech that builds up or turns another to Greater Things will have at its foundation a respect for the one spoken to. God never speaks to us from a position of disrespect, ever. He is always speaking from a place of understanding the Value of the ones to whom He is speaking. Jesus was always pissing people off because of this…His model of speaking was always out of respect for the individuals worth, not whether or not they were “respectable”. Jesus was not about “defending” a position, but about breathing life into a situation…. Does it bring life? Or is it a mere defensive positioning? This to me, is the starting point and stopping point of theological discussion…. Once someone has to “win” I am out….

Ps: I was raised a Catholic, became an evangelical, got roped into fundamentalism. I am a recovering fundamentalist who loves God and loves His people,( well ok I admit.. I am pretty allergic to some of them) no matter where they go to pray. And I go to worship with a lot of people whom I never ask about certain stuff…Just can’t take it …..
Christian H

“I grew up independent, evangelical fundamentalist, so I speak Protestant as my native language.”

Actually, you speak independent evangelical fundamentalist as your native language. I’ve hopped quite a few Protestant denominations, and I can assure you that the differences between them are great indeed. As a commenter before me has noted, I think, an Anglican sounds more like a Catholic than like an evangelical in a lot of ways. Somewhat from the United Church or the Lutheran Church would sound different still.

So if I have a recommendation for Catholics speaking to Protestants, it would be this: do not assume /anything/ based on the label “Protestant” save that they are neither Catholic nor Orthodox.
(And, of course, the converse is true: do not assume anything based on the label “Catholic” save that they are neither Protestant nor Orthodox. And so on.)

Susanne

Yes! I get so tired of Catholics assuming we Protestants are all Independent Baptists!!! errrrr.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Ann-Nienow-Bowen/1269278808 Ann Nienow Bowen

I remember when I was about 8, my half-brother who had married a Catholic widow, told my Dad that he was going to convert to Catholicism from being a cradle Lutheran. My dad and mom sat at the kitchen table, and my dad said I can’t disown him, he’s my son, but I don’t approve. My mom who was my half brother’s stepmother said isn’t it better for him to go to church with his family (by this time a daughter and son) than to go to church alone? Dad finally understood this. It turned out that my brother was a much more faithful Catholic than his wife was, and he made sure the kids got to school and church.

Growing up in the northern part of the midwest there was a definite divide between Catholics and Protestants and I blame to hierarchy of the church for it. Kids were preached to in catechism class that Protestants weren’t going to get to heaven and would burn in hell. Thank God we’ve risen above such malarkey.

I once asked a priest if we all worship the same Lord Jesus Christ, believe in his Resurrection and Ascension to heaven to rule over us, why is there is such discord. He wisely told me that religion is perfect, it’s the people who are imperfect.

Anonymous

Exactly. The people are still people, and we’re sinful. The first pope denied Christ three times, so….
And the “going to Hell” thing definitely goes both ways: I attended 9 years of Catholic school and then went to a public high school. One of the FIRST THINGS people said to me when they found out I was Catholic was that I was going to Hell. The area was about 90% ELCA Lutheran.

Anonymous

Yup, yup and yup. Great post.
As a side note to teh “catholics aren’t Christians” thing: I once was in an ELCA (Lutheran denomination) church for a wedding rehearsal. I was flipping through the hymnal and found a service, with the Apostles Creed. It said “the holy christian church” instead of the “holy catholic church.” Palm slap.
Handsfull

In my Bible study group, there is a Catholic couple, and the rest of us have Protestant backgrounds. We have been meeting pretty much every week for over 3yrs now, and have managed to negotiate our way through discussions on theological differences without anyones feelings getting hurt. From that experience, I would say the 2 most important things are humility and love. I appreciate this couple, and when something does come up for discussion I try to frame my questions from the respect and love I have for them. I’m asking them questions because I want to understand their viewpoint, not because I want to prove them wrong or to try to change their belief. I know they love Jesus just as much (if not more) than I do, and as far as I’m concerned, the rest just isn’t that important.
http://kansasbob.com Kansas Bob

I attended two different RC churches for a few years when my wife and I were dating and first married. I was always made to feel like an outsider, especially at communion time when my wife went forward and this Evangelical was not allowed to partake.

These days we both attend a United Methodist church where everyone there is made to feel a part. The pastor speaks positively whenever he speaks of the pope, other denominations or the RC church. Communion is offered each week and everyone is encouraged, but not pressured, to participate.

I do wish that all churches would somehow get to the place where church is considered the house of the Lord (not of a particular group) and communion is offered at His (not the church) table. We are family and we should act that way.
Mistie Holler

Elizabeth, I think these are good tips and I’ve certainly been guilty of not utilising this kind of common sense wisdom in the past, mostly I think the ‘definition of terms’ one.

There’s a lot to like about Catholicism. In fact, if I could bring myself to believe everything the Catholic church teaches, I’d happily become a Catholic tomorrow. I’m not anything in particular these days; having experienced the difficulties of non-denominational, sexist, authoritarian evangelicalism, all I do now is truly hope that there’s a merciful God ready to perfect me and welcome me when I die, even though I don’t feel I can talk to Him and perhaps don’t always believe in Him. That’s all I can really cope with at the moment.

Because I come from that perspective, I have often wondered several things about your decision to become a Catholic. I don’t think these questions have been addressed in your blog and I’d be interested to hear them answered if you want to. In the spirit of dialogue, not interrogation or a desire to prove anything, I’m going to ask them here.

I know you come from a patriarchal kind of background and don’t hold to the kinds of ideas about complementarianism promoted by so many mainstream protestant leaders. I appreciate the way that Catholicism reveres Mary and the way in which that informs (speaking very generally) Catholic attitudes to women as opposed to Protestant attitudes. What I find difficult to understand is how you can be OK with an all-male clergy now you’re a Catholic. I understand that Catholic clergy are male for a different reason to all-male Protestant clergy and it’s to do with the representation of Christ at the Eucharist. However, to me it sounds like an ‘admission’ that men are made more Christ-like than women, formed more in the image of God than women. I’ve heard a lot of the arguments that Catholics use to support an all-male clergy and while I don’t find them very convincing, I’d be very interested to hear how you reconcile an all-male clergy with your egalitarianism (which is apparent from this blog).
Something else I’ve wondered now and again is how you reconcile an anti-authoritarian stance with being a member of a church that has a priestly ‘class’ that is believed to be empowered by Christ to forgive sins.
As I understand it, once you develop a system that must be infallible (because it was instituted by a perfect God and must therefore be perfect), then all manner of cover-ups and injustices are acceptable in the name of maintaining the appearance of the perfect goodness of the system. We see this in the cover up of clergy paedophilia in the Catholic Church and in the current Sovereign Grace Ministries child abuse scandal, and in so many other denominations that have turned a blind eye or quietly allowed child abuse. I think that heirarchical systems, backed up by the threat of God’s wrath at disdaining His perfect church/religious system, are breeding grounds for abuse. Presumably you disagree with that assessment and I’d be interested to hear your perspective.
Finally, I find it hard to see the difference between the Catholic Church’s stance on reproduction and the Quiverfull/fundamentalist stance on it. Do you see a difference between them?
I totally get that you aren’t going to answer all of these questions here in the comment section Obviously you don’t have to justify your Catholicism to your readers but I just thought maybe sometime you could address these things in a post as I’m sure there must be other non-Catholics/ex-evangelicals reading who are wondering the same things.
http://www.wideopenground.com/ Lana

Your awesome! That’s all I want to say.
http://twitter.com/byzcathwife priest’s wife

“You don’t have to be the Holy Spirit”- TRUE! and isn’t it a bit prideful to think we can be this? I pray for the Holy Spirit to give me the right words and actions…but hey- faith is a gift…and it is not up to me!
Catholic Mutt

I agree with your points completely! It’s not about (or shouldn’t be about) trying to prove yourself right and/or the other person wrong. I find that it’s best to simply do my best to explain why I believe the way I do, rather than trying to convince someone to see it my way. For one thing, then I have to actually be able to explain the reason for my belief. And listening/asking questions about what the other person believes and why. That way we can walk away from the conversation with hopefully a greater knowledge and respect for the other person, even if no one changes their mind about anything.
kharking

As a protestant who finds so much to appreciate about Catholicism but also has some serious theological issues with it as well, I appreciate this list immensely. Another suggestion–don’t speak as if all the spiritual and temporal ills of the world can be blamed on either group. I grew up in a very anti-Catholic setting where the assumption was that they were not Christians at all. Now there are several Catholic writers whose words I would otherwise find beneficial who I can no longer read because they (and sometimes their commenters) specifically blame all of the problems of society on those backsliding and promiscuous protestants. Both untrue and both unhelpful.
Laura

Thank you so much for this, dear friend. As you know, I’m getting married this year. I’m a Catholic from birth, in love with my faith, and as devout as my imperfect humanness allows, and my husband-to-be is Presbyterian. We struggled in the early stages of our relationship with our faith differences: they way we prayed, the way we worshiped, what we believed, why we believed, our previous experiences with faith and religion, etc. And after 7.5 years, lots of trial and error, and the gifts of grace and humility, our relationship with one another and with God and Christ is more whole and loving than I ever imagined it would or could be. We choose each day to focus on the common ground and, ultimately, unconditional love, just as Christ calls us to do. That’s not to say there haven’t been or will not be difficult times ahead, but we trust that God brought us together to be a witness to the full union that love in Him and one another can bring–and that can only come through Him. We made the commitment to honor one another’s faith traditions, so each Sunday we attend a Presbyterian service at the church he’s been a member of for almost a decade, and then Mass at the parish I’m a member of. And we feel as though both of these places of worship belong to both of us and we to them, because the common ground is Christ and love. And we talk about how this practice each Sunday really helps us to feel whole.

When children come along, if they do, we will most likely baptize them Catholic, but we will share both our faith stories with them, ultimately teaching them about the wonderful-ness that is Christ and the ultimate gift of unconditional love. Yes, there may be some tricky moments ahead, and we are aware. And we will pray about them and seek out the wisdom and guidance of others.

We’ve learned over a long period of time to be gentle with one another, to express humility above all. It’s a constant journey, but it’s one we both feel deeply honored to be on together with one another and Christ.
Anonymous

I was brought up as Roman Catholic, and I can understand why those who are not think that Catholics are not Christian. It all depends on where you live, the church you belong to, the priest you have learned from, and so many other things. The way I was brought up, ‘Christianity’ as a synonym of ‘church’ was Sunday for 1 hour a week. Anything else, forget it.

There is a whole lot more to my story, but suffice it to say, I get very angry when people put down Catholics because of one or two things they have heard or read. But I also get angry the other way around. As there are so many shades of gray in the Bible, I agree with Elizabeth that we need to talk about what we have in common, then dialogue civilly about the differences. We may all learn something.

I am not Catholic. I am not Protestant. I don’t even really know what evangelical means. Fundamental means something different to everyone. I am not accepting at face value what anyone has said. No one, no one preacher, has all the answers. No seminary has all the answers. The problem happens because someone thinks that they do. I am learning to listen to the Holy Spirit. Learning to live like a disciple of Christ. Take all your rules and eat them. I know there are only 2 – Love God, Love others. Everything else is gray.

5 easy tips for promoting (edifying!) dialogue between Protestants & Catholics

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